Tag Archives: shellfish argument

Exposing the foundational errors of postmodern / emergent Christianity in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

I came across The Bible & Homosexuality: Enough with the Bible Already via the blog of a recent commenter.  The author is heavily into postmodern / emergent church thought, which is basically just theological liberalism described with fifty cent terms.  The title pretty much says it all about their worldview.  The post is a logical fallacy-fest trying to have Jesus while teaching the opposite of what He does in his word.  As usual, they downplay or even mock the importance of sound doctrine.

It was largely a straw man argument implying that Bible-believing Christians are never friendly to gays.  I know a “few” conservative Christians and that isn’t the case at all.  These critics fall prey to the truism that the truth sounds like hate to those that hate the truth.  Of course we should be friendly to them.  But you don’t express your care for people by teaching them the opposite of God’s word.

The flawed theme was the claim that there are just a few verses addressing homosexual behavior, so we should just ignore that unpopular topic.  Yes, and there are just a few about child sacrifice (don’t), bestiality (don’t), loving your enemies (do) as well.  And that proves what, exactly?

They also ignore the flip side: How many verses describe God’s ideal for marriage and parenting?  Hint: More than a few.

  • 100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the clearest and strongest possible terms.
  • 100% of the verses referencing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.
  • 100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).
  • 0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.

Here are sections of the post along with my comments:

But presenting a coherent biblical argument for why homosexuality is not a sin and why our gay brothers and sisters should be fully welcomed into all areas of the church and ministry is not my point here.

Well – if that’s the problem – then I say, “Enough with the Bible already!”

That’s a concession speech right there.  The provocative title says we need to ignore the Bible.  But notice how he doesn’t ignore the Bible when propping up the rest of his claims.

This issue has been on my mind a lot recently, for a variety of reasons, but most recently because Sarah and I gathered with some friends from our church and watched the documentary, “For the Bible Tells me So.” If you don’t know anything about the film, you should really watch the trailer . . .

Better yet, read about the trailer here.  It was full of all sorts of bad reasoning.

. . .  I became increasingly upset that there are people in this world (primarily Christians) who think our gay and lesbian friends should not be allowed to marry, adopt children, have the same rights as straight people or be ordained to follow calls to ministry. Rather, they should be “fixed” or changed. And for those who are Christian and believe these things, these beliefs come from a very selective reading of a very small amount of texts from the Bible.

Yes, we think that homosexuals should not be given the title of marriage (“the union of a man and a woman”) because it doesn’t apply to them and is un-biblical.  But I don’t know one single Christian trying to prevent their “loving” relationships.  We also don’t think they should adopt children, because we love children and want the best for them.  And of course they shouldn’t be ministers.

Note how he cheats by claiming that Christians use a “very selective reading of a very small amount of texts from the Bible” while he does nothing to address the texts.

If it is truly the Bible that is causing some to hold these discriminatory beliefs, then perhaps we need to set the Bible aside for awhile. Perhaps we need to not construct a belief system about LGBT folk built on the foundation of a couple verses in scripture. Perhaps that isn’t healthy, fair, just or Christian.

“Discriminatory beliefs” = question begging.  He assumes what he should be proving.  Some discrimination is quite rational.  He needs to prove that this is the bad kind.

How convenient to set the Bible aside for a while when it conflicts with your cherished views!  That is classic Dalmatian Theology, where they claim that the Bible is only inspired in spots and they they are inspired to spot the spots.

Christians have a history of using the Bible as a weapon (this is a bit of a caricature – but probably not far from the truth). Whether being used to condone slavery, oppress women or support wars, it’s clear the Bible has been misused by many [insert here accusations that I as well am misusing the Bible with my hope for acceptance of LGBT folk]. When the Bible becomes used as a weapon, as a tool for discrimination, as a way in which people can justify beliefs of hatred and injustice – one has to think and wonder if we haven’t gone horribly wrong somewhere.

Yes, and the Bible has been used to free slaves and oppose wars.  His argument proves nothing, except that the burden of proof is on those claiming support of the Bible.  But wait, I forgot — he wants to throw the Bible out of this conversation!

For some, I believe the Bible has become an idol.

That’s possible, but unproven and irrelevant here.  We tend to view the Bible as God himself does: His inspired word, carefully given and preserved for us to know what He wants us to know about him.  Does he make the Bible an idol when he quotes it, or is it just when we refer to it that it is an idol?

Some place the Bible above Jesus’ compassion and love, Jesus’ radical inclusivity, and hold steadfast onto what they believe to be the correct interpretation of a small amount of verses that speak about same-sex relations.

Straw man.  If you really love people you’ll want to tell them the truth.  Jesus’ “radical inclusivity” means including everyone who repents and believes.

To those who repeatedly start quoting Leviticus and Romans verses as soon as anyone brings up the topic of homosexuality, I’d suggest perhaps you stick your Bible back up on the shelf for awhile. Perhaps it should collect a little bit of dust. And maybe, just maybe, you need to go out and grab coffee with someone who’s gay. Maybe you need to hear their story, learn about what they’ve been through, how they’ve experienced Christians and the church.

Why not do both?  I know plenty of gays and we get along well.  I don’t try to “fix” them before sharing the Gospel any more than I try to stop anyone from being lustful, greedy, selfish, etc. before I share the Good News.  But of course I don’t encourage them to pursue those sins, either.  That wouldn’t be loving.  Here’s one encounter where I shared the Gospel with someone who was gay.

It’s recently become more and more clear to me that there is an increasing amount of fear and ignorance connected to this topic. We may be living in the 21st century, but there is still so much fear connected to gay people in our world. Fear of the unknown is strong and rampant in so many people’s assumptions about gays. Fear comes from ignorance, from a lack of knowledge. I wonder how much fear could be laid to rest if those who feared gays the most actually got to know someone who was gay.

More straw.  How will shelving your Bible make you less ignorant?  There is nothing wrong with getting to know people better, but no matter how much I like someone who is cheating on his wife I shouldn’t encourage the behavior.

The fear argument is just your basic “homophobe” accusation.  The real homophobes are those who are so politically correct and fearful of rejection by the world that they defy their (alleged) Savior and common sense and teach the opposite of what Jesus did.

. . . So I’m not arguing that we should throw out the Bible; but at least for some people, it might be more productive – and better for society – if they put the Bible aside for awhile, stopped listening to the hateful rhetoric of James Dobson & Friends, and engaged in some thoughtful reflection and conversation with the LGBT community.

Ah, the “hateful rhetoric of James Dobson and friends.”  Here’s a wild guess: This guy doesn’t listen to Focus on the Family Podcasts.  They are anything but hateful.  Again, the truth sounds like hate to those that hate the truth.  And he assumes that we haven’t given thoughtful reflection to this issue or the people involved.

Christians need to get over their infatuation with a very select few verses, and get over their infatuation with a literalistic interpretation of these texts.

Even more straw.  Nobody light a match!  Notice how he says we interpret them wrong but won’t say why.  How convenient.  And notice how he ignores that 100% of the verses describing God’s ideals for marriage and parenting involved one man / one woman marriages?

Christians need to look more to Christ than to the Bible.

LOL.  And where do we learn about Christ?  If he claims personal revelation, then after I stop laughing I’ll point out that I’m going to trust the personal revelations given to the writers of scripture before someone who wants me to ignore the Bible.

Christians need to actually live out the radical love and compassion that Jesus exemplified in the scriptures. Christians need to realize that the world will not end when gays are given the right to marry – or when we finally fully welcome LGBT brothers and sisters into pastoral ministry.

He has yet to prove why we should ordain people who come into the church shaking their fists at God and defying his clear teachings.  His love and compassion are the fake, indulgent kind that point people to Hell.

If it is the Bible that is causing us to delay accepting and celebrating LGBT persons as being fully human and fully created in the image of God, just as they are, then perhaps we need to say, “Enough with the Bible already…”

That’s the final bit of straw.  We do realize that they are fully human and created in the image of God.  We have their long term best interests at heart.  That’s biblical (agape) love.  The writer is the one who loves himself more than the gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people he claims to care about.

Also see Left Wing Pomos Comment on Bible v. Homosexuality for more false teachings, primarily where they assume that the need for “community” trumps the need to obey God.  Got any Bible verses for that?

Those posts are quite typical for the postmodern / emergent types.  Making a god in your own image is not exactly a new sin.  Run, don’t walk, from those mocking accurate references to the Bible.  Don’t love the world more than you love God.

Also see for some accurate teachings: