Tag Archives: Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints

Saved by ____?

A friend’s Facebook status about refuting the false doctrine of purgatory reminded me of this post.  Key line from below: If anyone teaches a method of salvation based on Jesus Plus (i.e., his sacrifice plus your good deeds, or purgatory or whatever else) or Jesus Minus (i.e., “Jesus is one way, but other religions are just as good”) then you have a heresy on your hands.

Let’s just keep it all Jesus, all the time, OK people?


book-of-mormon.jpgOne of the errors of Mormonism is in 2 Nephi 25:23, which reads, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” [emphasis added]

That sounds humble enough.  It makes it appear that we are saved by grace and the sacrifice of Jesus.  It sounds like the Bible, but there is a big difference.  Look more carefully and see what really saves you:

  1. You do all you can, and you are saved by grace.
  2. You don’t do all you can, so you are not saved.

So what is the difference between the two?  It is ultimately about what you do, not about what Jesus did.  In that case, it isn’t grace that saves you, it is your works.

The key word is “after,” and the phrasing is clear.  And after all, Joseph Smith said the Book of Mormon is the “most perfect book in the world,” so that wording must be accurate, right?  And every Mormon I have talked to acknowledges that the works are required for salvation.

If anyone teaches a method of salvation based on Jesus Plus (i.e., his sacrifice plus your good deeds, or purgatory or whatever else) or Jesus Minus (i.e., “Jesus is one way, but other religions are just as good”) then you have a heresy on your hands.

And while this isn’t the reason that being saved by grace through faith is true, consider which is better news:

  1. Having to rely on your efforts with no assurance of salvation (Mormonism and other works-based religions)
  2. Knowing that Jesus did it all for you and you just need to repent and believe in him (Christianity alone)

This is the truly good news.  Take it from someone who has not “done all he can!”

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Yes, I’m familiar with James 2:20 (You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?).  Of course real faith will produce real deeds.  But as the Ephesians passage makes clear, it goes like this:

  • Real faith in the real Jesus = real salvation followed by real works
  • Faith in the wrong Jesus + lots of good deeds done out of pride = still spiritually dead
  • False faith + works = still spiritually dead

Courtesy of Ms. Green, here is a list of requirements to be saved in the LDS view:

Step #1:Have faith in Christ
Step #2:Be repentant
Step #3: Be baptized by the LDS Church
Step #4: Receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands from a member of the Melchizedek priesthood
Step #5: Males are ordained into the Melchizedek Priesthood
Step #6: Receive temple endowments
Step #7: Participate in celestial marriage
Step #8: Observe the word of wisdom
Step #9: Sustain the prophet
Step #10: Tithe
Step #11: Attend sacrament meetings
Step #12: Obey the church

Oddly enough, while the LDS church and Christianity preach a different Jesus and a different Gospel, on paper orthodox Christians have more in common with Mormons than with theologically liberal Christians – a high view of scripture, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Jesus is the only way, and more.

But they teach a false, works-based gospel.  I know that many will not escape from there, but I pray that few new people join.

Also see But they are so nice! and Are Mormons really Christians?  Are Christians really Christians?


False teacher fesses up

I am re-re-running this post because I heard from a friend that the false teacher below wants to dialog with me.  As noted before, if the false teacher makes an authentic conversion to Christianity then I’d be glad to talk to him.  Otherwise, he just needs to re-read this.  Apparently he has a short memory.


I am re-running this oldie from my other blog to close the chapter — again — on one of the false teachers who recently commented here.  Somehow he thought that I had forgotten his concession speech noted below and that I was once again interested in what he had to say.

This guy thinks Jesus is OK with abortion and homosexual behavior, among other things, but that it is really bad to teach the concept of Hell and that Mormons aren’t Christians (even though for the first 200 years of the LDS church they marketed themselves as being the one true church and that orthodox Christians were false).

Pointing people to false teachers without proper warning is the spiritual equivalent of sending kids to pedophiles.  I don’t consider him or his kind to be Christian, and he admitted that whatever we are it is not the same thing as each other.

If he ever repents and believes then I’d be interested in hearing about that.  Otherwise, I’ll just point to his own words which revealed his false teachings and his deceptive nature.

He admitted that we worship different Gods, even though he had denied it for a long time and is now back to denying it.  If you just keep the wolves talking long enough their fleece will slip off.


contradiction.jpgI commented on a post at Marshall’s and that got a couple of my fans all fired up.  They seem to have some bitterness issues and used the thread to work out some anger.  That’s inexpensive therapy, I suppose.  One I just ignored, as usual.  It works well.

But another one was too much fun to pass up.  You see, Geoffrey has been quite vocal that he and I are both Christians, despite his rejection of so many essentials of the faith.  On the thread he even said, “the Christian faith is large enough, and has always been large enough, to hold together all sorts of ideas and persons and perspectives that differ one from another. That is just a statement of fact.”  He has written all sorts of posts mocking my views (I quit reading his blog long ago, but I see the titles of the links that come in).

I rebutted his false accusations and fallacies.  Nothing new there.  But what was so fun is that by the time the thread was through he had clearly contradicted himself as well.  He completely conceded my larger point (that we don’t have the same religion) and proved that he was just as passive-aggressive and deceptive as I had been saying all along.

Here’s where he really went off the rails:

I know you think Mormons are going to hell. C’mon, dude, fess up. Your God is a mass murderer; worse, your God created billions of human beings only to consign them to eternal perdition because they don’t read the Bible the way you do.

First, his comment didn’t even characterize my views properly. I have never claimed that people go to Hell for not reading the Bible the way I do.  I claimed that people go to Hell for the reasons described in the Bible: They are sinners who die without having faith in Jesus.  Pretty basic stuff.  And of course, there was nothing to “fess up” about. I’ve done whole posts about why Mormons aren’t Christians, so why would Geoffrey accuse me of hiding that?

But the bigger revelation is that the truth finally came out (Truth being that which corresponds to reality, a definition Geoffrey denies in theory but can’t escape in practice).

He conceded that we worship different Gods. I’ve been saying that whatever he is (spiritually speaking), I’m not, and whatever I am, he’s not. He’s denied that and said we’re both Christians and criticized me for not having a big enough tent.

He finally admitted that he thinks that “my” God is not the right one.   The God of the Bible is a mass murderer in his view, and Hell is not real.  Mormons go to Heaven without faith in the real Jesus.  Presumably everyone else does as well.

Geoffrey is entitled to his views and I respect his religious freedom to hold and express them.  My point all along was that it is not Christianity and definitely isn’t in the same camp I’m in.  He denied that all along, until now.  He obviously thinks I am teaching falsehoods about God, i.e., he thinks I’m a false teacher.

So he has shown that I’m right on both counts: I have reason to call him a false teacher and he is just as passive-aggressive as the types I mentioned in my first comment at Marshall’s place (“Postmodern thinking = wimpy and passive-aggressive. I’d much rather talk with someone with a clear view that they’ll defend than someone who insists that we can both be right (while secretly being sure that only he/she is right).”)

Still, I wish him the best and pray that he repents and believes someday and stops making false claims about Jesus and Christianity.

Closure is nice.

Also see The importance of sound doctrine.  Read the verses carefully and you’ll see why addressing false teachers is biblical and important.  I just added 2 Corinthians 6:14: Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?