Tag Archives: Abortion debate

When pro-choice really means pro-abortion

More and more I see that those claiming to be pro-choice are really pro-abortion.  A typical example is shown by false teaching “Reverend” Chuck “Jesus is not the only way” Currie.  He really shows how pro-abortion he is in “Fake Clinics: Stop Preying on Women.”

You see, if someone was truly pro-choice — and especially if that someone claimed to be a Christian — he would not oppose and would probably support Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs).  They do many great things for women and families in need, all for free.  We realize people have legal choices, and we’re merely trying to help them choose life.  Oh, and we share the Gospel if they are interested, another thing that a real Reverend would be thrilled about.

So on to the claims made in Currie’s post.  First, make no mistake: People who make lots of money  killing babies don’t mind lying to protect their business.  No kidding!  So I would never take their claims at face value.

A common misperception is that the “Christian position’ on abortion is anti-choice.

Yes, we are anti-choice to crush and dismember innocent human beings.  Like most pro-abortionists, Chuck just doesn’t know how to finish his sentences.

The truth is that many Christian denominations support the right of women to make their own health care decisions.

Double fallacy: No one opposes women making “health care decisions.”  We do oppose women killing their unborn children, who are distinct human beings.  What about health care for the unborn, Chuck?  Why don’t you support their right to make decisions?

I recognize that the issue of abortion is a difficult one and that good people can come to very different conclusions concerning this issue.

But why is it difficult, Chuck?  Please explain.  I know why it is wrong: Abortion kills an innocent human being.  But if you disagree with that fundamental scientific fact, then why is the issue so difficult?

My own belief is that government shouldn’t be in the business of making these kinds of decisions for women.  Women should have a choice.

Tired old fallacious sound bites.  Chuck, should women have a choice to kill their toddlers?  Hopefully not.  So this isn’t about women having choices in any generic sense.  It is about a very particular choice: To have her unborn child killed.

He wants the government to make all sorts of decisions for our lives.  Shouldn’t the primary role of government be to protect human beings?  The government wouldn’t making a choice for the woman, it would be making a choice to protect innocent human life  and protect the “least of these.”

The General Synod of the United Church of Christ has said:

Whereas, women and men must make decisions about unplanned or unwanted pregnancies that involve their physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being; and …Whereas, abortion is a social justice issue, both for parents dealing with pregnancy and parenting under highly stressed circumstances, as well as for our society as a whole;

Yes, it is a social justice issue: You shouldn’t kill innocent human beings.

Therefore, be it resolved, that the Sixteenth General Synod:

  • affirms the sacredness of all life, and the need to protect and defend human life in particular;

But if the life of the unborn is sacred, why not protect her?  There is no question that it is a human life.

  • encourages persons facing unplanned pregnancies to consider giving birth and parenting the child, or releasing the child for adoption, before abortion;

But one of Chuck’s objections is that their are dangers with pregnancy.  If abortions aren’t immoral, then with Chuck’s logic they are safe and effective methods of birth control.

  • upholds the right of men and women to have access to adequately funded family planning services, and to safe, legal abortions as one option among others;

Please explain how an abortion can ever be safe for the unborn human being.

  • urges the United Church of Christ, at all levels, to provide educational resources and programs to persons, especially young persons, to help reduce the incidence of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies, and to encourage responsible approaches to sexual behavior.

A reporter from The New York Times who recently visited a Crisis Pregnancy Center notes that she was provided with a pamphlet “about the risks of abortion” that “mentioned breast cancer, a link the National Cancer Institute has refuted, and something called post-abortion syndrome, for which the American Psychological Association, among others, says there is no evidence. As for the physical risks of pregnancy and childbirth? There was no pamphlet to discuss them.”

Gosh, the NCI and the APA would never buckle to political pressure, would they?  And people who kill babies for a very profitable living would never lie about it, would they?

Hey, come to think of it, Chuck is a well documented, serial, unrepentant liar.  Since when did he get so passionate about the truth?  Oh, when it advances the pro-abortion cause.

And Chuck obviously has never met many post-abortive women.  One of the many things offered by CPCs is post-abortion trauma counseling.  We have the great news of hope, forgiveness and healing in Jesus.  Too bad Chuck can’t offer that.

And of course, in his “Christian” counseling he’d tell them that killing their unborn children was blessed by Jesus.  What blasphemy!

Some authentic Christians might be pro-choice, though they are deeply, wildly, embarrassingly on the wrong side of the issue and almost universally uninformed about the key issues.   One day they will deeply regret that their laziness and refusal to be involved were the reasons abortion was made and kept legal. But you can know for sure that nearly 100% of Christians who oppose CPCs are fake.

CPCs save lives today and for eternity.  Fake Christians like Chuck and Co. are tools of Satan trying to destroy lives today and for eternity.

P.S. It is a very, very well documented fact that Planned Parenthood hides statutory rape.  If he is so concerned about the truth, why doesn’t Chuck blog about that?

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How to know when “pro-choice” means “pro-abortion”

Every time I think false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way” Currie can’t top his earlier hypocrisy and falsehoods, he proves me wrong.  Chuck is pro-legalized abortion and wants taxpayer-funded abortions but hypocritically mentions Jesus’ concern for the “least of these” in many of his posts.

But he really shows how pro-abortion he is in “Fake Clinics: Stop Preying on Women.” You see, if someone was truly pro-choice — and especially if that someone claimed to be a Christian — he would support Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs).  They do many great things for women and families in need, all for free.  Most take zero government funding and rely solely on contributions and many volunteer hours. I expect Planned Parenthood to hate CPCs.  After all, if you make money by killing babies then anyone with a pro-life mission is your sworn enemy.  But even pro-choicers should support CPCs.

So how about the claims made in Currie’s post?  First, make no mistake: People who make lots of money  killing babies don’t mind lying to protect their business.  Really! And it is a very, very well documented fact that Planned Parenthood hides statutory rape.  Why doesn’t Chuck blog about that?

I wonder if Chuck’s opinion of Planned Parenthood would change if his daughters became clients?  History shows that if they were 13 and pregnant by 27 yr. old men that Planned Parenthood would not report the statutory rape and would coach them to lie about it.  Oh, and they would kill his grandchildren — for a large fee, of course.

Most parents would go nuts over that.  Then again, Chuck the moral freak proudly takes his young girls to gay pride prides.  What a Romans 1 poster boy.

Now to fisk Chuck’s lies and bad reasoning:

A common misperception is that the “Christian position’ on abortion is anti-choice.

Yes, we are anti-choice to crush and dismember innocent human beings.  Like most pro-abortionists, Chuck just doesn’t know how to finish his sentences.

The truth is that many Christian denominations support the right of women to make their own health care decisions.

Double fallacy: No one opposes women making “health care decisions.”  We do oppose women killing their unborn children, who are distinct human beings.  What about health care for the unborn, Chuck?  Why don’t you support their right to make decisions?

I recognize that the issue of abortion is a difficult one and that good people can come to very different conclusions concerning this issue.

But why is it difficult, Chuck?  Please explain.  I know why it is wrong: Abortion kills an innocent human being.

My own belief is that government shouldn’t be in the business of making these kinds of decisions for women.  Women should have a choice.

Tired old fallacious sound bites.  Chuck, should women have a choice to kill their toddlers?  You want the government to make all sorts of decisions for our lives.  Shouldn’t the primary role of government be to protect human beings?  The government wouldn’t making a choice for the woman, it would be making a choice to protect innocent human life  and protect the “least of these.”

The General Synod of the United Church of Christ has said:

Whereas, women and men must make decisions about unplanned or unwanted pregnancies that involve their physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being; and …Whereas, abortion is a social justice issue, both for parents dealing with pregnancy and parenting under highly stressed circumstances, as well as for our society as a whole;

Yes, it is a social justice issue: You shouldn’t kill innocent human beings.

Therefore, be it resolved, that the Sixteenth General Synod:

  • affirms the sacredness of all life, and the need to protect and defend human life in particular;

But if the life of the unborn is sacred, why not protect it?  There is no question that it is a human life.

  • encourages persons facing unplanned pregnancies to consider giving birth and parenting the child, or releasing the child for adoption, before abortion;
  • upholds the right of men and women to have access to adequately funded family planning services, and to safe, legal abortions as one option among others;

Please explain how an abortion can ever be safe for the unborn human being.

  • urges the United Church of Christ, at all levels, to provide educational resources and programs to persons, especially young persons, to help reduce the incidence of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies, and to encourage responsible approaches to sexual behavior.

A reporter from The New York Times who recently visited a Crisis Pregnancy Center notes that she was provided with a pamphlet “about the risks of abortion” that “mentioned breast cancer, a link the National Cancer Institute has refuted, and something called post-abortion syndrome, for which the American Psychological Association, among others, says there is no evidence. As for the physical risks of pregnancy and childbirth? There was no pamphlet to discuss them.”

Gosh, the NCI and the APA would never buckle to political pressure, would they?  And people who kill babies for a profitable living would never lie about it would they?

Hey, come to think of it, Chuck is a well documented, serial, unrepentant liar.  Since when did he get so passionate about the truth?  Oh, when it advances the pro-abortion cause.

And Chuck obviously has never met many post-abortive women.  Of course, in his “Christian” counseling he’d tell them that killing their unborn children was blessed by Jesus.  What blasphemy!

Some authentic Christians might be pro-choice, though they are deeply, wildly, embarrassingly on the wrong side of the issue and almost universally uninformed about the key issues.   One day they will deeply regret that their laziness and refusal to be involved were the reasons abortion was made and kept legal. But you can know for sure that nearly 100% of Christians who oppose CPCs are fake.

CPCs save lives today and for eternity.  Fake Christians like Chuck and Co. are tools of Satan trying to destroy lives today and for eternity.

Pro-lifers don’t care about kids after they are born?

baby1.jpgOne of the most common sound bites / jokes that pro-choicers make about pro-lifers is that we are infatuated with the fetus but don’t care about kids after they are born.   The message is that if we don’t adopt all unwanted children then we have no right to complain about abortion.  It is an important sound bite to be able to address, because it is very common and even pro-lifers I know are not only intimidated by it but they have used it themselves as a reason to remain silent about abortion.

The “Pro-lifers don’t care about kids after they are born” line is one of my favorite arguments to rebut.  I teach people how to do it in pro-life training sessions in a two step approach.  The tone of the conversation is important.  These arguments are powerful and quite effective if they are laid out in a calm, reasoned approach.  You probably won’t convert the rabid pro-choicers, but most of the middle-grounders will get the point.

First, show that pointing out a moral wrong does not obligate you to take responsibility for the situation.

If your neighbor is beating his wife, you call the police.  The police don’t say, “Hey, buddy, unless you are willing to marry her yourself then we aren’t going to stop him from beating her.”  You can use child or animal abuse as examples as well.  Most people get the point pretty quickly.

Or just use this response: “Can one oppose infanticide without having to raise the unwanted children to adulthood?”  That would be a a good segue to the “trot out the toddler” approach promoted by Stand to Reason and ask if it would be acceptable to object to murdering a toddler even if you aren’t willing to adopt her.  Of course, the pro-choicer will always recognize the moral good to protest toddler-killing.  Then you can point out that killing innocent human beings is immoral and that the unborn are human beings.  So pointing out this moral wrong does not obligate us to do anything further.

Or ask the pro-choicer what they would do if the government decided to reduce the number of homeless people by killing them.  Could he protest that without having to house and feed them all himself?

Or ask if you can protest Michael Vick without adopting all the pit bulls.  So many good choices!

Second, explain that while we aren’t morally obligated to help after the babies are born to be able to speak out against abortion, Christians do many things with their time and money anyway – orphanages, Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs), food pantries, etc.

When I’m teaching CPC volunteers I remind them of all that they and the center do: Pregnancy tests, ultrasounds, food, clothes, diapers, life skill training, parenting training, post-abortion counseling and more – all for free!  And, of course, we share the Gospel with the clients if they are interested (Saving lives now and for eternity!).

The workers are mostly volunteers and the leaders make below-market wages because they believe in the cause.  Most centers receive no government funding, so all the money comes from donations.  There are far more Crisis Pregnancy Centers than there are abortion clinics.

When I tell people about CPCs the typical reaction is, “I had no idea.”  Most people aren’t aware of all the good being done there.  In theory, CPCs are something pro-choicers could support as well.  After all, if women choose to keep their child this is a great way to help them.  But Planned Parenthood et al consider them public enemy #1 because we take away some of their business.

You can also ask pro-choicers what Planned Parenthood and the like do for hurting women once the babies are born.  It is a really, really short list.  Do they provide free post-abortion counseling? (Of course not, because who would need that, right?)  Do they give diapers, formula, etc.?  Hey, they don’t even give free abortions (though they would love for your tax dollars to fund some).

Having said all that, I do think the church can and should be doing even more in the area of adoptions and support for orphans.  Not because having pro-life views requires that, but because it is the right thing to do regardless of whether abortion is legal or illegal.  Sponsoring a child from World Vision or a similar organization is a great way to start: For only $28 per month you can feed, clothe, educate and correspond with a needy child.

Here’s a bonus argument: A recent Stand to Reason Podcast brought up another good point that I hadn’t thought of.  Here’s an additional response to use: Unless someone concedes to being truly pro-abortion (i.e., they expect women to always have abortions or raise the children with no help from the public), then the pro-choicers are obligated to adopt the children as well.  Either that, or give up espousing their pro-choice views.  After all, if you claim to be pro-choice and the women choose life, then the same care giving obligation falls on you.

Think about it.  It may seem subtle at first, but it is a completely consistent argument.  Pro-lifers don’t think it should be an option to kill the unborn, so pro-choicers use the false logic that we can’t complain about abortion if we won’t adopt all the kids and raise them to adulthood.  But if the woman decides to choose life, then the pro-choicer would have the same moral obligation to raise the kids.

Here’s how I played this out in this comment thread:

Pro-legalized abortion commenter: Hard decisions belong between a pregnant woman and her caregivers, not “holier than thou” intruders, unless they personally are willing to raise, including medical care, education, and life care, all those fertilized eggs.

My response: Another canard.

Answer me this: Let’s say the government decides to solve the problem of homelessness by killing homeless people. Can you protest this without being willing to house them yourself?

You can also substitute other examples (Can you call the police if your neighbor is abusing his wife and children without having to marry her and adopt the kids?).

It is a simple question designed to point out the primary error of your argument: You don’t have to take ownership of a situation just because you protest a moral evil.

And even though I don’t have to raise those human beings (the ones you like to call fertilized eggs) just because I protest the evil of abortion, I actually do a lot with my own time and money via CareNet Pregnancy Center.

And by the way, unless you are truly pro-abortion, then you are obligated to help as well. After all, if you claim to be pro-choice and the women choose life, then the same caregiving obligation falls on you.

So that argument self-destructs in at least three ways.

Finally, consider if the child was outside the womb. Do the women and her caregivers get to decide if the toddler lives or dies? Of course not. So the only question is whether the unborn is a human being. Since it is a scientific fact that she is, then people shouldn’t get to decide whether to kill her. And Christians especially shouldn’t support anyone’s right to kill her.

Other commenter: BTW, half of fertilized eggs don’t implant in the uterus, so is it illegal for a woman to have mensus?

My response: Are you seriously claiming that you don’t see the difference between the following?

1. Human being dies of natural causes.

2. Human being is crushed and dismembered by another human being.

I think most people can see the difference, whether 1 and 2 occur inside or outside the womb.

I’ve heard all the pro-legalized abortion sound bites many times and will be glad to debunk more for you. I hope that you are intellectually honest and reconsider your position on this crucial issue.

In summary, pointing out the moral evil of abortion does not obligate one to adopt all the babies.  But pro-lifers do help anyway.  A lot.  And they do it with their own time and money, not their neighbors’.

When pro-legalized abortion people try to put you on the defensive by asking how many kids you have adopted, use the reasons above to respond.  Also, you can ask how many they adopt from orphages.   If they haven’t adopted any, then according to their logic they couldn’t protest their destruction.

Big hat tip: Stand to Reason pro-life training materials