The state of the Methodists.

The following was left anonymously as a comment but I thought it was worthy of a post.  The Methodist church has some good things going internationally and at some local levels, but the national and regional leadership in the U.S. is mostly a train wreck of false teachers.  Most members aren’t aware of this.  My philosophy and advice for those still in the church is simple: Fight for the truth and for change or leave.

I did both.

As noted below, the GBCS is pro-abortion.  And not just a little bit: Methodists helped found and still actively support the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice that blasphemes God by insisting that He is pro-abortion.  And I do mean pro-abortion and not pro-choice.  If you push for taxpayer-funded abortions, you are pro-abortion.

Here is the comment that was left here.

—–

Last year I was asked to be on the Church Growth Committee at my United Methodist Church.I accepted and began to study why our Church was not growing.Initially,I studied the demographics of our local area to determine what our target group ,so to speak, was and how we could bring the message of salvation to them. I first assumed that the greatest potential for growth would be among the unchurched.It proved to be an alarming study.Most of what I found was already known by our pastors,district superintendents and our bishops. Our leaders were aware of the aging of the Church membership, the movement of our youth away from mainline church membership,the lack of pastors under thirty-five years of age,the lack of men pastoral candidates in our seminaries,the number of second career candidates and unfortunately the overall quality of those answering the call to be pastors.However, my study lead to more then just changing “how we do church” by offering a traditional or contemporary service , starting a Saturday night service,combining with a minority church to share talent, ideas and resources, hiring a highly paid Youth Director or even paying our associate ministers a decent wage. No, I found out that our church has changed fundamentally from the Wesleyan tradition and has limited our evangelical target groups so severely that continued growth will be unachievable in the future. Why? A growing Church is a biblical.,Christ-centered Church. Now wait! Hear me out.
Over time our seminaries have become packed with very liberal,if not socialist, professors.The procedures for becoming tenured in our universities is flawed.The vetting of our potential pastors, district superintendents and bishops is inadequate. The oversight of the General Board of Global Ministries/General Board of the Church and Society/ Women’s Division has been totally lacking.
Here are a few of my findings, no my beliefs, after nearly a year of trying to answer, ” Why is our Church not growing?” I had to add another question ,”Why is the Church not retaining its membership?”. The fact that the death rate of Methodists is 33% greater than the national average only shows how aged the membership is.

A.Through our political activism we have we have limited our influence on many segments of society.

a.The Church’s inclusion and support of the Methodist Federation for Social Action (MFSA) http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/communism.htm https://www.cal-pacmfsa.org/uploads/CalPacMFSA_Nwsltr_June2007.pdf alienates many of members and non-members of the Church.Personally, I am concerned with any organization that invites the Rev. Jeremiah Wright ,of the United Church of Christ, to be the keynote Speaker at its annual conference as the Iowa Conference did.The close association of our Church with the ultra- liberal United Church of Christ does help the Church. The United Church of Christ has offices in all our of the Church’s buildings in Washing DC and NYC.
United Church of Christ in US endorses same-sex marriage New York
(ENI) July 2005
The United Church of Christ has become the first major denomination in the United States to endorse same-sex marriage. In a move heralded as historic by gay-rights proponents and criticized by opponents of same sex relationships, the UCC’s General Synod, meeting in Atlanta, on 4 July voted overwhelmingly in favor of a resolution that “affirms equal marriage rights for couples regardless of gender”.
b. Our seemingly disregard of the Book of Resolutions and Social Principles in regard to the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle alienates another large segment of the population.having Bishops march with Soul Force at the 2008 General Assembly was upsetting to many potential members and members of our congregations.The retired Bishops that performed same-sex marriages did harm to the growth of the Church and caused many members to grieve .When Bishop Ough keynoted a Reconciling Church Celebration, as the Maynard Avenue United Methodist Church of Columbus, Ohio became a Reconciling Congregation, he was clearly in support of the homosexual lifestyle.Bishop Ough has served as the bishop of the Ohio West Area of the United Methodist Church since September 2000 and was reappointed to the same area for the 2009-2012 quadrennium. He was the president of the Church’s General Board of Global Ministries, having been elected to that office in 2008.
Northern Illinois United Methodist Conference Urges: Homosexuality/bisexuality “gift of God”
June 6, 2003
Highlights of text:
…human sexuality is a good gift of God…
…homosexuality, heterosexuality and bi-sexuality all share that gift…
…we commit to proclaim that homosexual orientation (no less or more than heterosexual orientation) can be compatible with Christian teaching
… We encourage clergy to preach this from our pulpits …
…we encourage lay people to teach it in our Sunday school classes and tell it to our children…
…we affirm that loving, monogamous, intimate relationships between persons of the same or opposite gender, are an expression of God’s love…
…we affirm that persons of all sexual orientations are equally called to ordained ministry…
…as lay persons we will similarly affirm that call and we will offer ourselves fully in mutual ministry with pastors of our churches regardless of that person’s sexual orientation…

The Sex and the Church series published at the General Board of Church and Society website is about as edifying as Sex and the City.
The latest article
discusses the “evils” of heterosexism. (One wonders if there are also such things as asexism, homosexism and bisexism.)
Did you know that if you assume that a little boy will like toy trucks and guns or that little girls will like dolls, you’re a heterosexist and a homophobe? You’re also a homophobe if you describe families as consisting of “mommies and daddies”. Sodom and Gomorrah’s big sin was a “failure of hospitality.” And yes, you’re a homophobe if you don’t consider this to be a valid interpretation. That’s what Audrey Krumbach says anyway.
Does the average United Methodist know that this kind of nonsense is being propagated by an official church agency? (Have we forgotten that the official view of the UMC is that homosexuality is “incompatible with Christian teaching”?) I attend a fairly liberal United Methodist church, but I’m betting that even in my congregation most of the people are in the dark about what’s going on.
It’s time to shine some light on some of these problems. A lot of shenanigans happen in our denomination because the average United Methodist either doesn’t know or doesn’t care.
Posted by Shane Raynor on February 09, 2010 at 10:00 AM

c.United Methodist Bishop Denies the Gospel on International Television
The Christian Sentinel – April 1, 2003{definition of religious pluralism added}
There he was — a representative of the second largest Protestant denomination on March 11 with a perfect opportunity to share his faith in Christ with the world watching him on “Larry King Live” on CNN. From the way the calls were coming in from from the U.S. and overseas during the show’s Q&A time period, the viewers were attentive — and on edge over the possibility of a U.S. coalition war with Iraq. Many callers were seeking guidance from the five Christian leaders gathered that evening for the telecast.
But retired Bishop Melvin Talbert, the ecumenical officer for the United Methodist Church, not only blew the opportunity to tell the world about God’s gift to humanity through Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross for their sins, but he preached a different gospel and he affirmed universalism. His comments may have helped some viewers move to an eternity apart from Christ, because what he clearly said was that other roads also lead to salvation, including those caught in the twisted world of Islam.This is Religious Pluralism- A response to the religious diversity inherent in 21st century Western culture which entails a belief that one’s own beliefs about God are self-sufficient but not universally applicable. In other words, it is the belief that “God is greater than any
one view of God.” Therefore, salvation, divine revelation, etc. are manifest and applicable to all people in diverse waysTo understand Islam is to know that we cannot identify Muslims as those who “along with us adore the one and merciful God.” To deny the Trinity is to worship another God.

Respect is a problematic category. In the end, Christians must show respect for Muslims by sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the spirit of love and truth. We are called to love and respect Muslims, not Islam.
Moreover, Talbert seriously warped Scripture during his appearance and misrepresented it — declaring that it calls for things it does not, and in doing so he misrepresented the Christian faith and betrayed the Wesleyan tradition of his own denomination. This is heresy, folks. It is part of an increasing flood of apostasy, a falling away by so called Christian leaders in the Main Line denominations. Few leaders today represent the face of apostasy and the voice of treachery and treason within Christianity better than Bishop Talbert.
This latest controversy, however, is not new with Talbert. He has been brought up on discipline charges before the UMC in the past, with various evangelicals accusing him of lying and of deliberately defying church law. In more recent years he has angered many within Methodism for his promotion of homosexuality — even sanctioning gay marriages in direct defiance of his church, not to mention Scripture.
d. I think Methodist Churches has been duped by the socialist left and and radical Islam,.
.The Council for American-Islamic Relations( CAIR)http://www.meforum.org/916/cair-islamists-fooling-the-establishment , has offices in the Methodist Buildings in NYC.In NYC they share the suite with Columbia University Trustees.-Islamic radicals and the trustees of socialism. Bishop Bruce R Ough, West Ohio Conference United Methodist Church,issued a press conference statement vilifying the “Obsession” DVD,RADICAL ISLAM’S WAR AGAINST THE WEST. As president of the church’s North Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops,he dismissed the complaints(essentially charges of heresy) filed against Bishop C. Joseph Sprague of Chicago .I guess his not understanding the threat radical Islam should have been expected. He should read:Tablighi Jamaat: Recipe for an Islamic State,http://westminsterjournal.com/content/view/202/30/ , ,http://www.investigativeproject.org/985/fbi-cuts-off-cair-over-hamas-questions

The Islamic Society Of North America(http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6178 ),Nation Magazine(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation) , National Religious Campaign Against Torture and the Muslim Public Affairs Council (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6177 ) all have offices in the Methodist Building located at 110 Maryland Ave NE in Washington, DC.The Methodist Building located at 475 Riverside Dr in NYC is the office of the CAIR-NY and the Imams Council Of New York.The Methodist building across from the United Nations at 777 united nations Plaza are the offices of Amnesty Internationalhttp://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6185, Caritas Internationalishttp://www.ngo-monitor.org/article.php?id=884 . The goals of the Communist Party,the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) ,the United Nations and the GBGM/GBCS seem to closely parallel each other http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.htmlCORA WEISShttp://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1677 , President, Hague Appeal for Peacehttp://www.pfcmc.com/cyberschoolbus/peace/GlobalCampaignStatement.htm , and the SAMUEL RUBIN FOUNDATION,http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/funderprofile.asp?fndid=5348&category=79 .
e. Again Bishop Bruce R Ough, West Ohio Conference United Methodist Church,issued a press conference statement vilifying the “Obsession” DVD,RADICAL ISLAM’S WAR AGAINST THE WEST. As president of the church’s North Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops,he dismissed the complaints(essentially charges of heresy) filed against Bishop C. Joseph Sprague of Chicago .I guess his not understanding the threat radical Islam should have been expected. He should read:Tablighi Jamaat: Recipe for an Islamic State http://www.tcunation.com/group/christiansstandingwithisrael/forum/topics/islam-lite-in-christian?commentId=2476373%3AComment%3A346638&xg_source=activity&groupId=2476373%3AGroup%3A343898

f. Our continued association with Socialist and lert wing groups as DSA, Sojourners, Code Pink, http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printindividualProfile.asp?indid=1833 ,http://www.philvalentine.com/TakingBackTheUMC.htm ,http://www.philvalentine.com/NashvillePeaceJusticeCenter.htm ,These kinds of shenanigans definitely mar the reputation of our Church and Church growth.http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html http://www.acton.org/publications/randl/rl_20_1_communism_article.php http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1348488/posts
The NCC has offices in the Methodist buildings in Washington DC and NYC. http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue07/apostasy.htm http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wcc.htm
g. The following are concepts that are pervasive in today’s mainline Churches:
Religious Liberalism (Modernism) — A religious movement that elevates human reason
(as manifested in rationalism, science, humanism and empiricism) above divine
revelation in an attempt to make the Christian faith compatible with modern culture.
Religious liberalism originally stemmed from the theological and philosophical bases of
the Age of Reason, or the Enlightenment Period. The two pillars on which religious
liberalism rests are the higher criticism and the Darwinian theory of evolution. Religious
liberalism, or modernism, denies the supernatural and emphasizes the supposed inherent
goodness and progress of mankind.
Postmodernism — The natural end of modernism (religious liberalism). Postmodernism
is a recent philosophical and theological development that denies the reality of
transcendent, objective truth by claiming that all notions of truth are socially constructed.
Truth is not a transcendent reality but a social creation of human intellect and language.
Therefore, all beliefs are equally true and valid, and any claim to absolute, objective truth
is rejected since such a claim necessarily negates the “trueness” of any competing beliefs.
As one writer stated, “Everything can mean anything, so everything means nothing.” Key
tenets of postmodernism include moral, theological and linguistic relativism, religious
pluralism and tolerance.
Religious Pluralism — A response to the religious diversity inherent in 21st century
Western culture which entails a belief that one’s own beliefs about God are self-sufficient
but not universally applicable. In other words, it is the belief that “God is greater than any
one view of God.” Therefore, salvation, divine revelation, etc. are manifest and
applicable to all people in diverse ways.
These concepts are preventing mainline Churches from growing or retaining their membership as the laity begins to understand what their giving is supporting.
The Methodist Church has been consumed by the socialist United Nations ‘s agenda.So much so, even when the agenda embraces Anti-American or Anti- Israel, the General Board of Church and Society/General Board Of Global Ministries sign letters. petitions with the likes of Code Pink, United for Peace and Justice, Veterans for Peace,ACLU, Sojourners, MoveOn.org, Oxfam America,Columbus Progressive Alliance, American Friends Service Committee,Fellowship of Reconciliation, Earth Charter ,Africa Action, IPS ,Tides Foundation, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and others.Why does it matter?The Church is losing its mission.Here are a few examples:
1. Kofi A. Annan, Past Secretary-General, the United Nations is adamantly supported by James Edward Winkler and of course Ret Bishop Melvin Talbert http://www.ncccusa.org/pdfs/UNAd.pdf
.Annan is for a global government and he could not hide his anti America sentiments even in his farewell speech.
2. So what is the GBCS’s definition of Social Justice? Let’s look how the UMC’s social justice agent responded to the recent attempt by activists to run the the blockage of Gaza:
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The United Methodist General Board of Church and Society (GBCS) is condemning the deadly interception Monday (May 31) in international waters by Israeli troops that led to the deaths of nine persons on a humanitarian aid mission to Gaza. The nine persons were part of an international “Freedom Flotilla” of six vessels carrying nearly 10,000 tons of food and medicine to Gaza, which has been under an Israeli blockade for three years.
“We grieve the loss of life and injuries sustained in what became a tragic confrontation between the forces of peace and those of armed aggression,” said Jim Winkler, chief executive of the United Methodist social justice agency.

This is the typical of the GBCS.They never mention the need for the blockade, that out of five ships only one chose to fight the Israelis or the tons of aid and supplies that has been delivered to Gaza through Israel.The GBCS has long ago accepted the WCC, NCC, and the UN stance on Israel. I truly believe that all these organizations realize that the only sane player in the Middle East Conflict is Israel and hope of peace through compromise must be with the Israelis.

Let’s look at GBCS real issues:

A.GBCS is Anti-Israel http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/the_united_methodist_church_an.html

B.GBCS is Anti- War-Was Jesus a pacifist?http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html
How will the Church address the Carnage and Slaughter caused by these Sons of Satan? http://www.matrixbookstore.
biz/war_criminals.htm , http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2006/edition_01-22-2006/Dictator, http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1277549/k.D7FE/UN_Watch__Monitoring_the_UN_Promoting_Human_Rights.htm,http://www.eyeontheun.org/view.asp?l=21&p=142

C. GBCS is Pro- Abortion

D.GBCS supports the breaking of the laws of the United States-At an April rally in Washington, D.C., United Methodist Bishop Minerva Carcaño addresses thousands of protesters calling for fair treatment of undocumented immigrants. She will be a featured speaker at ‘Welcoming the Sojourner’ Oct. 16-18, in Naperville, Ill.”Welcoming the Sojourner” is co-sponsored by the North Central Jurisdiction of The United Methodist Church and the denomination’s General Board of Church & Society (GBCS). Without borders we have no Nation- Without borders we have no Sovereignty.

E. GBCS supports the premise that that capitalism has caused Global Warming an owes developing nations reparations for the damage.

F. GBCS supports radical environment justice

G.GBCS supports interfaith-not inter-denominational but interfaith(religious pluralism)

H. GBCS Supports disarmament -peace through weakness- to the glee of the socialists/communists dictators

I.GBCS supports the ban on all hand guns-The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects a right to keep and bear arms .[1] Justice Antonin Scalia , wrote that the “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” was a just a controlling one and referred to it as a pre-existing right of individuals to possess and carry personal weapons for self-defense and intrinsically for defense against tyranny . The Hand Guns National Coalition to Ban is located in the Methodist Building( 100 Maryland Ave NW) in Washing DC.Again,to the glee to all who would want to harm.

J. GBCS is and was an avid supporter of Kofi Annan- enough said!

K. .GBGM/GBCS/Women’s Division continue to fund RCRC and Planned Parenthood

L. . Other tenants in Methodist Buildings include Nations Magazine( flag ship of the Left), Mother Jones Magazine,NCC Eco- Justice Programs Amnesty International.

Do I think the associations do harm? Yes!

The GBCS has become and active member of the socialist left in this country. Some examples are listed below:

a.Protests with radical organizations to change US foreign policy http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=339 , http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pubs.html?id=695 ,
Prominent among those arrested in front of the White House include Father Joseph Nangle, co-director of Franciscan Missions, James Winkler, General Secretary of the the GBCS, and Leslie Cagan,http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=629 , national coordinator of the United for Peace and Justice activist group(UFPJ) (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6166 .

b. The Women’s Division has marched with radicals groups (Code Pink http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=61490
ACLU,Golbal Exchange( http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6151 ), DSA ( http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6428 ).

c. The General Secretary of the GBCS serves on the Board of Africa Action with Emira Woods,( http://www.ips-dc.org/staff/ emira ,
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6991 .

d. Phyllis Bennis is a Fellow of the Institute for Policy Studies http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6991 ,
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2147 ,co-authored Ending the US War in Afghanistan with
David Wildman.He is Executive Secretary for Human Rights and Racial Justice with the General Board of Global Ministries, United Methodist Church. He has regional responsibilities relating to the Middle East and Afghanistan and has in recent years traveled to Afghanistan four times.

e. The Board has accepted the socialist belief that all the injustices in the world have been caused by capitalism, racism ,colonialism,US imperialism and US foreign policies.
f. On February 22-23, thirty-two leaders from Central and South America gathered in Cancun to organize the new regional union of “Latin American and Caribbean States.” Communist rulers from Cuba and Venezuela were warmly welcomed. The United States and Canada were not invited.

Nor was Porfirio Lobo, Honduras’ new president. Instead, the leaders planned to discuss the issue of his legitimacy. Some still denied the unwanted facts

behind the legal removal of the corrupt former President Zelaya — a collaborator with Communist Hugo Chavez and the drug lords they both protected.The GBCS strongly supported the President Zelaya.
g. United Nations is entrenched within most Christian Denominations.( http://faultlineusa.blogspot.com/2007/04/united-nations-entrenched-within-most.html, http://www.camera.org/, http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/chronologies/un.htm, http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/turfur12-98.html, http://www.crossroad.to/, http://mises.org/daily/2318

3 So, what is GBCS’s definition of “Social Justice”? It is political not religious.It combines economic justice,environmental justice,gender justice into a world view that systematically blames the world’s problems on apartheid,colonialism, imperialism, US foreign policy ,corporate irresponsibility and globalization.The Church has accepted the secular version of Social Gospel.gotquestions.org States:
Adherents of the Social Gospel believe that individuals could only leave their sinful lifestyle if the social and economic situations were changed that drove them into sin in the first place. As a result of this reasoning, individual salvation was important, but second to social reform, which would convert people into Gods kingdom. Salvation of the individual then, stood as an important byproduct of working for a literal kingdom of God on earth. Working for social improvement, the Kingdom of God on earth was the thrust of the Social gospel movement. This is now become Social Justice{not Christian Charity but government control to effect equality in all things ie Socialism}This type of gospel alienates many of the membership who still believe that our time on earth should be spent in glorifying GOD and making disciples of all nations.
When churches seek unity they accept unbiblical lifestyles and religions( Religious Pluralism because they have not recognized Christ as the head of the universal church (Colossians 1:18), and are preaching “another gospel” (Galatians 1:1-9).
The true Gospel is defined in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 and John 3:16.
I can more easily explain what their definition is not. It is not biblical!

The best guide for Christians that I could find is contained in:

Dr. John F. MacArthur, Jr.
Why Government Can’t Save You : An Alternative to Political Activism. Nashville, TN : Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2000

I first became appalled with what my Church was doing-no become- when I read about the Trinity United Methodist Church in Austin welcoming into its pulpit a pagan Wiccan priest of the Covenant of the Goddess.Have we become a Apostate Church?Bishop Whitaker , Pluralism might not have been a problematic in the first century but it is now in the 21th century.
WE will soon have only Red and Blue , Pro or Anti Israel and Pro and Anti Homosexuality,Pro illegal immigration or anti illegal immigration, Pro Gun control or anti Gun control CHURCHES.We will have forgotten That Jesus did got come to overthrow the very oppressive Roman government but to establish his heavenly kingdom.We have forgotten the great commission.The only thing that can change the evil and corruption on this earth is by the acceptance of Jesus as our savior and be transformed to live a Christian life.The Church must return to the Biblical Truths to Grow the Lords’ Church.We are alienating the very people we are wanting to bring to Christ.
Our relationship to the United Nations and its Anti-American,Anti- Israel ,Pro World Government stance is of special interest to me.I am concerned about the time and energy we spend on advancing the UN’s social agenda.I need for the Bishops to answer the following questions:
A.Should Christians be tolerant of other people’s beliefs? Is there another way to heaven besides through Jesus Christ?
B.In what countries do the displaced Palestinians live? How are they treated?Why are the Christians fleeing from PA controlled areas and cities?List the compromises make by the Israelis -the Palestinians.What would happen if the Israelis laid down their arms?What would happen if the Palestinians laid down their arms?List the demands of the Palestinians for a lasting peace. List the demands of the Israelis for a lasting peace?Do we believe the God’s Covenant with Abraham will be fulfilled or do we believe in the “replacement theology”?
C.Do you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible? Have we perverted the truth?Are we preaching an ambiguous gospel?Please tell me the scriptures in the Bible that the Methodist do not believe?
I do not believe in evolution.
I believe in capital punishment.
I am against abortion.
I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.
I believe that through Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father and salvation.
I believe that Peace on earth can only be maintained through strength.
I believe that we must obey the laws of our country or change the the laws by the ballet box.
I believe in Genesis 1 and Romans 1.
I believe God still has plans for Israel.
I believe in the 2nd amendment to the Constitution.
I am pro- Israel.
Who is left to join our Church that we have not alienated ?The illegal immigrants?We are not able to proselytize anyone! Why? Is it unbiblical?NO. It is against our politicized faith! That is also why we can not retain our members or our youth.

13 thoughts on “The state of the Methodists.”

  1. Wow, what an indictment on the UMC as a whole. I know there are assemblies who do not agree with the UMC national stance, in which case they should leave the denomination, but my experience studying UMC across the country uncovered much of the same things noted here as problematic. I would guess that the UMC will shortly become like the UCC to where you wont’ be able to tell them apart.

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  2. I did not get through the whole post. I don’t think I need to as I get the point quite well.

    My wife and daughter (16yrs old) are both more than happy at the thought of leaving our UCC congregation for our other Evangelical Free Church that we had begun visiting over a year ago. My wife formally resigned as wedding coordinator of the UCC church (though more because my job results in more time apart from each other and she doesn’t want to spend less time by working weddings on weekends). Without that tie, she intends to concentrate on the Evangelical church. I don’t mind as our daughter loves it there and if she likes to go, I won’t deny her. Neither read their Bibles, so they get good instruction from the pastor’s great sermons (though I keep nagging them about reading their Bibles). They both feel like they truly understand the message and lessons from the EFC pastor more than the UCC pastor who, though we all love the guy, can ramble and leave you wondering just what the hell he was talking about.

    Anyway, the UCC church is losing people like crazy, with it’s mostly elderly congregants seemingly dropping like flies. The rolls are dwindling and I fear the place can’t last much longer without serious changes, the most important in my mind is secession from the UCC. I have not been a regular church goer these past few months as my new job has really messed with my sleep schedule. But I intend on attending the UCC service this Sunday as it turns out its annual meeting is taking place after service. I will ask what plans are in place for expanding their rolls and then once again propose leaving the UCC. I will offer to speak as to why this is a good idea now and give my thoughts to any who want to hear. But one way or the other, my wife and daughter are headed to the other place, and I won’t let them do so without me, at least most of the time. My love for the UCC congregation is strong and frankly, so it is as well for the building and property on which it stands, which has been there since the mid 1800’s. It would be terrible to see it sold and become a McDonald’s. I would continue my membership if I thought they would agree with my thoughts and make a move in that direction. We’ll see. This will be my last attempt.

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    1. And yet the UMC (at least the younger/more liberal members) think if they’re more “inclusive” like the UCC, they’ll be able to increase their numbers… their General Conference is happening right now in Tampa, and the nonsense I see on twitter (hashtag #gc2012) is truly impressive. Thankfully the traditional, orthodox UMC in Africa are growing much faster than the liberal ranks in the US/Europe.

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  3. Thanks for re-posting this brief comment. 🙂 Interesting and seemingly becoming the norm for major denoms, in the name of growth, to perform the one act that guarantees death. Ignore the Word of God. God bless.

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  4. When social justice becomes more important then salvation, then I think it is time to prayerfully consider leaving that church. I am struggling myself because of the direction I see things going within the Methodist church. My hope is that the voices of so many liberal within the US will be drowned out by the rising number of conservative pastors from other countries. I pray to understand why in countries with the least social justice, the churches focus on salvation and in the most liberal countries countries, the focus is away from salvation. I pray for my church leadership and for our congregation. And I pray I will not have to leave the church family I have grown to love because of a continuing focus away from salvation.

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    1. > “I pray to understand why in countries with the least social justice, the churches focus on salvation and in the most liberal countries countries, the focus is away from salvation”

      Excellent point, and I hope all those prayers are answered.

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