I am so sick of the race card

I am so tired of the race card being played every time someone disagrees with President Obama.  From now on I’ll just treat it as the pathetic concession speech that it is — i.e, “I have no arguments against your position, so I’ll call you a racist.  I win!”

It isn’t the color of his skin, it is the thickness, along with his awful ideas. 

Do you seriously think we’d be opposing a 100% black person who was pro-life, anti-socialism, etc.?  I wouldn’t care if the whole administration was non-white as long as they weren’t pro-abortion, pro-government takeover of one thing after another (health care, automotive, banking, etc.), and more.

To those playing the race card: We achieved Rev. King’s dream of judging people by their character instead of their skin color a long time ago.  Come join us, it is a great way to live! 

Does racism still exist?  Sure, but not in a large enough way to influence the opposition to Obama.  Remember, his poll numbers are falling faster than any President in history.  Do you seriously think that the “racists” just realized he was black and changed their views?

0 thoughts on “I am so sick of the race card”

  1. It is like a sin for a black person to ever criticize half-white president Barack Obama. Shoot blacks sometimes be called Uncle Toms. It is very unfortunate indeed that anyone that disagrees with him is consider unfairly prejudice. Its a shame that Christians will defend him much more than they would Jesus!

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    1. Mercedes:

      I am a Christian, and it seems to me that both Black and White, Repbulican and Democrat, defend their “leaders” much more than Jesus. I saw the GOP act in such a manner with Regan, Bush and Bush II as I see it with the Dems and Clinton, and Barack.

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      1. Merriam-Webster defines non-sequitur as:

        2. a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said.

        In response to: Christians defend Obama more than Jesus

        Black and White, Republican and Democrat, and the Gop, defend their “leaders” more than Jesus.

        This makes me wonder, who or what would the Democrats defend Jesus against?

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      2. dan:

        Logic? Your logic is flawed because your premises are flawed, therefore your logical conclusion is not valid.

        You quote: “Black and White, Republican and Democrat, and the Gop, defend their “leaders” more than Jesus. ”

        Let me break this down for you since you don’t seem to understand what I am saying.

        Black people, who are Christian, White People who are Christian, Republicans, who claim to be Christian, Democrates, who claim to be Christian (as the groups were the SUBJECT of the posting) FOLLOW and DEFEND their social – political LEADERS, MORE than they would JESUS.

        Capice? Or should I say (since you want to use Latin): “ab uno disce omnes”.

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      3. Why would the left defend Jesus?

        They want to banish him from the People’s Republic, just like they did in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Red China, and so on.

        The problem with Jesus is that he interferes with the worship of the state.

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      4. Like the HUGH difference between Eisenhower’s Right and the Faux news wing nuts of today?

        In any case there are a LOT of Christians who are Democrats, so please let’s stop acting like the Republican Party has a (C) or TM or R by the name CHRISTIAN.

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      5. Personal attacks against an entire political persuasion indicate the emptiness of your position.

        Cut the attacks please.

        Your analogy doesn’t work, either.

        There may be lots of Christians who are democrats. But we are not talking about orthodox Christianity in many of those instances. Let’s stay focused: how do the values of the left reflect the teachings of Jesus? In the killing of babies? In the forced elimination of prayer and Christianity in the public square? When your response to these realities is “WELL! Other people do other stuff!” It indicates a real failure of critical thinking. Sort of along the lines of your insistance that my denial of being racist makes me racist.

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      6. Wow LCB, how does it feel to have someone purposely misquote what you say? At lease I used a word that you actually used in your post. It’s always funny, till it happens to you huh…

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      7. If you’d like to discuss the personal qualities of Martin Luther King, I’m glad to do that.

        But you might not like reality.

        That being said, let’s accept the premise.

        King was assassinated 40 years ago. Where has Christianity gone in the liberal movement since then?

        Ted Kennedy? Obama declaring “We are not a Christian nation”?

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      8. So what you are saying is that this:

        I am a Christian, and it seems to me that both Black and White, Republican and Democrat, defend their “leaders” much more than Jesus. I saw the GOP act in such a manner with Regan, Bush and Bush II as I see it with the Dems and Clinton, and Barack

        really means this

        I am a Christian, and it seems to me that both Black and White [Christians], Republican and Democrat [Christians], defend their “leaders” much more than Jesus. I saw the GOP [which is a Christian organization} act in such a manner with Regan, Bush and Bush II as I see it with the Dems and Clinton, [who are Christians], and Barack

        Is this what you’re trying to say?

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      9. You know Dan, either you are willfuly ignorant of what I am saying, or being facetious, or I’m typing wrong.

        The Democratic Party NOR the Republican Party are CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS.

        However, there are CHRISTIANS in both of those Parties and CHRISTIANS from all the ethnicities of people who are members of those parties who are CHRISTIANS.

        One either side, professed Christians often support the leaders and / or policies of their parties, even when those leaders and / or polices are in opposition to the teachings of JESUS.

        I really hope that is clear enough for you.

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      10. The Democratic Party NOR the Republican Party are CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS.

        But is one of those parties, in its written stated positions, explicitly anti-Christian?

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  2. Well, this is a subject I never approached before in that way. I don’t believe biblical eurocentric is inherently racist. However, I do come across people who believe Christianity is the “white man’s religion” and therefore gravitate towards Islam.

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  3. Neil:
    You know Neil, I was going to ask you to do a joint article with me (a conversation of sorts) that we could post on both of our blogs to address this very issue.
    As a Black man, who is pretty conservative and a Christian, but having some Liberal views regarding governments role in the welfare of society (but who does not identify with the RIGHT or the LEFT because of a few sociological reasons) let me explain to you what the problem is.

    I don’t think You or many of the people opposing President Barack Obama are racists personally, nor do I think Conservatives in general are any more or less “racist” than Liberals.

    However, I do think that there is an inherent collective sociological mentality of White privilege and superiority and by mutual implication Black resentment and inferiority that is part of the fabric of this Nation and to a greater extent the world. This affects Black and White people and everything in between.

    As for our nation it is there simply because of how this nation was built, it is the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, Eugenics and other pseudo-science, Lynchings, public campaigns about the inherent distrustful nature of Blacks, fear campaigns about how Black men wanted to rape White women, the KKK, the Civil Rights movement, Affirmative Action, etc., etc.

    Sure, things have gotten better than they were for my Father, my grandfather and especially my Great grandfather, but they are not as good as they could or need to be, simple as that.

    White people in many cases see any mention of race as some sort of cop out or excuse making for a persons lack of talent or motivation, Black people see this response as proof of some White people’s insensitivity to actualities that Black people face often in our society. The truth I believe, is somewhere in between.

    Because of the predicates regarding race that have been established in this country, there is a sociological reality we have because the president IS a Black Man. Mental imagery is there for WHITE and BLACK people (and everyone in between), some of that is hard coded.

    I myself often have to take a breath and clear my head before responding to something a White person, especially someone of the RIGHT has to say regarding this Black man who is now President of the United States (simply because the RIGHT has done very little to distance itself from militias, confederate flags or other imagery that invokes certain memories and ideas regarding the grand ole days when “black folks knew their place”).

    For example, there are a few POLICY issues that I have a problem with that Barack has. But when the RIGHT started going there with the lunacy it currently is forwarding, acting like Barack Obama is the equivalent to Joseph Stalin, and all the other hyperbole, attacking The First Lady and in some cases the first daughters, I am inherently going to still disagree with his policies BUT not going to sit idly by while people attack this Black Man on a personal level.

    Sure, some people called George Bush a Monkey, I believed that as wrong, but the SOCIOLOGICAL REALITY in the UNITED STATES is that if you call a Black Man a monkey, the imagery that is called up is a WHLOE NOTHER STORY.

    Whose fault is it that this is the reality? Eugenics for claiming that Blacks were the missing link between man and chimp? White people who perpetuated this type of foolishness for the past 450 years? Or Black people for being to “sensitive” or for buying into all that for the last 450 years and internalizing the whole thing too much?

    In all due actuality, IT DOESN’T MATTER whose fault it is, however we have to acknowledge that it is the REALITY we deal with. The thing is Three fold:

    1. Black folk need to be a little more sensitive to the sociological reality of race in America.
    2. White folk need to be a little more sensitive to the sociological reality of race in America.
    3. All Americans need to really start see each other as AMERICAN regardless of their ethnicity, religion and especially POLITICAL PERSUASION.

    Remember when if you criticized GW, one was not” Patriotic” or “UN-American”? Same type of problem/
    I will add this, the Right often calls out the racism in the Left, I have seen this, but since the “RIGHT” has a sizable “Christian” demographic, I would suggest they deal with the plank they got going before pointing out the plank in the other side.

    Basically, realistic deal with the race issues in your party, in a serious manner, and it would go along way.
    For example, I was a member of the Republican Party up until about three years ago. I joined the Republican party because a lot of the platform resonated with me. Further, When I was in the Marine Corps I had the privilege to meet General Colin Powell. When I found out HE was a Republican, that sealed the deal. I still admire JC Watts, Condi Rice, John McCain, Jim Edgar, Richard Lugar, etc, heck, I actually used to like Michael Steele.

    Even though I was not a big fan of Newt Gingrich, I understood and supported the need for Welfare reform, I am sure we shared “some” reasons, but overall I knew that that was ONE of the things that needed to be changed for the Black Community to prosper, unfortunately the other things didn’t change much.

    Being in Cook County, if I ever ran for office I would have to run as a Republican on general principle as I am so frustrated with the corruption and racism of the Democratic party in Illinois. When I say racism, I mean in how the African American community is dealt with there by a party they have loyalty to and get very little from.

    I had to leave the party and become an independent because of what I saw as an implicit head nod to parts of the country that didn’t seem to be to “Black folk” friendly. But was most irritated back in 2005 when the Republican run congress was comptemplating another “welfare reform” as I saw this fiscal mess fueled by corporate greed and individual irresponsibility forming, THAT WAS ALL I COULD TAKE.

    In any case Neil, I hope this sheds some light. Looking forward to the discussion.

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    1. You sound like a black separatist.

      Should black people have their own country where they are free from oppressive white power structures?

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      1. Should black people have their own country where they are free from oppressive white power structures?

        Why the personal attack when a simple yes or no will clear this up?

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      2. LCB:

        The very question to me is a PERSONAL ATTACK. I have three honorable discharges from the Marine Corps, The Marine Reserve and the Air Force Reserves serving THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, how many do YOU Have?

        That being said, don’t ask me such ascinine and unwarranted questions, I didn’t ask YOU if you wanted to suceed from the Union or if you were burning crosses, don’t come to me with such foolishness.

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      3. LCB:

        Seriously, be blessed that this is Neil’s blog and I am operating in restraint.

        What in the heck did I say that can be filtered to mean: “Black Seperatism”?

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      4. WOW! DJBA are we this misunderstood?

        I read this and instantly felt vindicated. Does that make me a a black seperatist too?

        LCB:

        We don’t need our own country! We want to be included in the one some of us were forced to build right along side of you.

        Now I agree we need to move on from our ugly past, but we have to ‘walk the walk’ too. If you read the above post by DJBA and come to this ‘seperatist’ conclusion then there is STILL a huge cultural divide in this country. Its a bit alarming for me, because the personal attacks against the president will continue and the divide will grow at an exponential rate.

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      5. Mizclark,

        I ask the question because it’s a serious question. There are a variety of thinkers, who are not insignificant in their reputation, who have advocated for various varieties of black separatism. DJBA’s analysis sounds very similar to some of their evaluations of the social situation.

        Among them are giants likes Booker T. Washington who advocated for a form of black economic separatism. To use today’s terms, he essentially argued that blacks can only achieve social equality (as opposed to social dependency) when they have achieved economic independence (as opposed to economic dependency) because equality and independence are one in the same.

        And maybe they’re on to something? There is a serious argument made (especially by folks in the line of black liberation theology) that points out that every other ethnic group that has achieved social equality in the united states 1) first achieved economic independence and 2) through this independence developed the political power to force equality.

        This is not true for blacks. Rather, white people took a vote and decided to give them civil rights. I’m not sure that’s real integration and equality.

        So, DJ got all upset about the question, but it’s a serious question and not meant to be loaded. There are serious thinkers that advocate various forms of separatism, and I’m pretty sympathetic to concepts of social and economic separatism so as to achieve true equality and integration.

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      6. Yes, okay I can follow this line of thinking, but you have to understand mainstream Christians do not understand the tenements of Black Liberation Theology.

        It is always viewed from the surface, and you only seem to hear the rantings of an oppressed people. The sermons have a definate beginning middle and end. The media takes the snippets from the middle and the world is in an uproar!!

        Classic example is Dr. Jeremiah Wright’s “Confusing God with Government” and “The Fall of Jerusalem”. You probably have no idea which one of these sermons contain the infamous “God damn America” rant do you? Did any of you listen to the whole sermon? No you heard treachery!

        You claim he hates white people and wishes blacks would seperate, but because you didn’t listen to either message you didn’t hear him attack the leaders of the black community too!

        So before you label and judge our church leaders for what they say in the pulpit…listen to the whole message and know Black Liberation Theology has its foundation in Jesus’ famous words…”Why do you notice the splinter in your brothers’ eye, but do not percieve the wooden beam in your own”

        If you are unwilling to listen to the beginning, the middle, and the end you have no business commenting at all. You are correct LCB! Whites took a vote and decided to give us civil rights, therefore it isn’t real.

        If you understand this, then why can’t you ALL understand Obama has and will never have any real power?

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      7. One of the problems with bad foundations is that your conclusion are even worse.

        I’ve read most of the key black liberation theology texts.

        I’d encourage you to try your post again, but with facts instead of wild accusations.

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      8. I did not post specific examples here because it is not my blog.

        Cultural Divide and Black Liberation Theology

        Neil is not a fan of Dr. Wright, so out of respect for him you can find my views at the above link. These are not wild accussasions. They are true. You have your radical preachers and we have ours.

        The difference? Everyone knows we have a right to our anger and you assume we will act upon what is being said in the church. What you really need to understand?

        It has been this way since we have been allowed Church and there hasn’t been a race war yet! Black Liberation Theology is about freeing the mind and spirit from slavery…nothing more.

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      9. Just to be clear LCB:

        The Emancipation Proclomation only freed slaves physical bodies from slavery. A people that had been enslaved for over 700 years. You cannot change the mind of a slave with a signature from a president.

        The rantings you hear are telling our people regardless of the atrocities of our governments it gives us no excuse to ignore the commandments of God.

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      10. I revisted your past few posts on this topic, and read them with fresh eyes.

        When i did I realized that when you are using the phrase “you”, it isn’t always meant to mean When i did I realized that when you are using the phrase “you”, it isn’t always meant to mean “LCB”, but instead “mainstream white Christian America in general”

        Is that correct?

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      11. Yes this is exactly what I mean. I strive to surround myself with people like you, Neil, SST and many others who post here.

        Although you are ‘ignorant’ of some key cultural issues affecting the black community, you at least have some understanding of our reality.

        I really am conservative and tend to vote that way, but I cannot ignore how society sets people up to fail. Its a two way street, but a set up none the less.

        Ask the people of Appalaccia who live in the mountains. There aren’t any black folk for miles, but I bet they can relate to our rantings of being ignored by mainstream society. I would go so far as to say they are more ignored than we are.

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      12. Wow. Personal attacks against Obama? Did you watch the news during the Bush Administration? Did you see the vitriole and acid being hurled by the left as they were suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome? The entire Truther Movement built its crazy conspiracy on hatred for Bushitler & Darth Cheney.

        Obama is treated like a pixie compared to that.

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      13. But it didn’t stop Bush did it??

        Obama may be a pixie but the country has definately thrown the proverbial monkey wrench in his program huh?

        No one stopped Bush, because it was for the good of the country. He and his family have been in business with the Bin Ladens for years, but this country turned a blind eye, because it wasn’t THAT Bin Laden.

        Makes you wonder just what the hell Osama Bin Laden knows that we don’t huh?

        What’s wrong? You guys prefer the Mafia of the Middle East versus the American home grown Mafia of Chicago? I’m confused…I thought you were all American Patriots!!

        Am I being flippant again Neil?

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    2. Hi DJBA,

      Thanks for the thorough analysis. I appreciate your balance on the issues and how you don’t reflexively jump to one side or the other.

      It would be fun to do a joint article, though my part would probably be pretty brief, something along the lines of “Affirmative action was necessary but has run its course and is now a hindrance. Everybody put down their race cards (hidden and open). The best solution is to talk less about race and just interact more and more (all races, not just black / white). We won’t change the minds of everyone but we can change the most that way.”

      I appreciate the back and forth with everyone in the search for clarification and hope everyone keeps it from getting personal (or scales back if it already has . . .). I like when my favorite commenters are candid but want to ensure things don’t escalate.

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  4. I apologize for offending you Neil. REALLY!

    I agree the race card is being played entirely too much when it comes to disagreements with the current administration.

    While I commend you for embracing the philosophies of Dr. King it is not true for A LOT of people in this country. I would love to think we have overcome, but that is not true either. It will forever be a work in progress because you will always have one dissenting voice.

    Obama and his cronies are idiots!!!! The power is starting to go to their heads. You just can’t hijack the school because you have something to say. Especially when there are people in this country still deciding if they want YOU to be their president! (Sad but true I know)

    Why didn’t he just pose the idea? Give them time to work it in ‘mid-term’? School just started and kids are getting over the excitement of the school year. He could have waited…he could have given more notice…whatever.

    Simple fact is people are upset because every president under the sun has spoken to children at school about their politics. They all have in some shape or fashion. That’s not what he is doing. He’s talking about things that are related to them! SCHOOL

    Ask yourself why you’re so upset? Because he spoke of change? Oh so everyone assumed because he said change, he wasn’t going to talk to the kids? What are we teaching our children while we are in this uproar? Do your children know why you’re upset?

    Are they going to be upset if you take them out of school one day, because of a 20 minute speech?

    What about the parents that want their children to hear the message? Will it be censored? Do they need to take my kids out of school to make sure they hear it? I just don’t understand why this couldn’t be handled like any other controversial topic.

    Why couldn’t the districts send letters home like they do for sex education?

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    1. Hi Mizclark,

      No offense taken. You didn’t offend me, I just got fired up by one of your FB commenters who played that card.

      I think we’ve lost the ability to focus on an issue. Here’s what I mean:

      1. Racism still exists. 2. Racism is bad.

      New thought! Brand new thought! Unrelated to racism!

      3. Barack Obama and Co. have some profoundly bad ideas and here’s why . . .

      Now disagree with my points supporting #3 if you like, but when Liberals and the media constantly play the race card it is more than annoying. It is childish, counterproductive, unfair and tips their hands that they don’t have real arguments.

      I’m glad you see the problems with Obama & Co. We agree on more than you think.

      Obama’s speech could be swell if it focused on staying in school and such, but the materials he sent and his other actions make people understandably nervous.

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  5. MizClark:

    See this is one of those things that the Right is doing that just fuels the fire.

    On October 1, 1991, George H. W. Bush pitches his education plan in a speech broadcast to school classrooms nationwide: from: http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002099/

    No letters went home, etc., etc.

    See, if the RIGHt would quit playing this type of pettiness they could really difuse alot of this “race card” stuff they complain about. The inconsisancy makes them look like hypocrites at best.

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    1. What could the right ever do that would make you think that they are not racist?

      In our previous discussions you have made clear– my asserting “I am not a racist” actually makes me a racist.

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      1. LCB:

        I don’t recall acussing YOU of being a racist, as you did accuse me as one in a few post, your last to me as an example.

        I don’t THINK the Right is any more or less racist than the Left.

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    2. Maybe you saw today’s headline, I don’t know if you had a chance to look at it, about the release of the new National Goals Report. Get the camera to come in and take a look at this for a moment. In math, for instance, this national report card shows that, nationwide, five of six eighth graders don’t know the math they need to move up to the ninth grade.

      In spite of troubling statistics like this one, I don’t see this report, however, as just bad news.

      What we don’t hear enough about are the success stories. You know, all over America, thousands of schools do succeed, even against tough odds, even against all odds. Kids from all over the District of Columbia petition to get into Alice Deal School here because parents know this school works.

      We made a start nationally now by setting six National Education Goals to meet the challenges of the 21st century. By the year 2000, at least 9 in every 10 students should graduate from high school. We should be first in the world in math and science. We need to regularly test student’s abilities. Every American child should start school ready to learn; every American adult should be literate; and every American school should be safe and drug-free. Reaching those goals is the aim of a strategy that we call America 2000

      The speech that the the the daily kos cites is obviously not intended for school children.

      For Obama’s speech the department of education is making available handouts for the teachers to aid them in preparation for the speech. There is a separate handout for grades K-6 and 7-12. A quote from one of those handouts:

      “Teachers can build background knowledge about the President of the United States and his speech by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama. ”

      Click to access prek-6.pdf

      The daily kos points out that ” A conspiracy theorist might even claim Bush’s goal was to influence parents by “indoctrinating” their children.”

      So are we to believe now that those who believe that the government schools are intent on indoctrinating our children are conspiracy theorist, and therefore Kooks? Obama or no Obama, this is no conspiracy, there’s nothing secret about it.

      It is my position that people should send their children to school on September 8th after explaining to them who the men are that advise the man they will be listening to, like some of his everyday run of the mill czars who want to put sterilants in the peoples drinking water, and force abortions. Then on September the 9th do what a parent should do and run, don’t walk, and get your children out of there. This is something even atheist are realizing.

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    3. Yup I remember that DJBA, and I also remember having to sit through Reagan’s “Taxes” assembly too. I believe that was in 1986. I remember thinking I didn’t pay taxes why did I have to miss P.E.? Funny its the only memory I have of it too!

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      1. I don’t think Neil meant White folks, that’s why I asked.

        Dan, I am being real serious here, but people like you is why I can have no dealings with the Right, people like Neil make me think that maybe things might change.

        That being said, the next time you call me racist, I will be happy to invite you to my seneis dojo in Hammond, IN, and we can settle the issue in proper Marine Corps fashion, in gloves…just saying…

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      2. You ‘white folk’ don’t own the market on racism. I’m from Texas and that is a two way street!

        I’ve listened to older family members talk about how our education was ruined by integration! How I should home school my children because I have the degrees the MAN forced me to get. Are you kidding me?

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  6. And I’m sick and tired of your side bandying about the false canard of “socialism” every time the government so much as sneezes. Sorry, if you think socialism is afoot then you’re either 1: a sociopathic liar or 2: insane or 3: stretching the definition of socialism so wide that you could conceivably argue that the existance of the US military is an act of socialism as well as the CIA. After all, PMC’s like Blackwater are conducting what amounts to military operations and Blackwater has its own version of the CIA.

    But tell me, if racism wasn’t playing some part in some of the right wing opposition to Obama, especially in the birther movement, then what is?

    After all..John McCain WAS born in a foreign country, Panama, and yet curiously noone was questioning whether he was qualified to be President or not. There wasn’t rumors flying around that he was secretly a muslim either. There was noone alluding to that he was in cahoots with terrorists.

    Face it Neil, your side of the political fence has gone batshit nutty.

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    1. Hi Nick,

      And I’m sick and tired of your side bandying about the false canard of “socialism” every time the government so much as sneezes.

      Hyperbole. We bring up the real accusation of socialism whenever socialistic policies are advanced.

      Sorry, if you think socialism is afoot then you’re either 1: a sociopathic liar or 2: insane or 3: stretching the definition of socialism so wide that you could conceivably argue that the existance of the US military is an act of socialism as well as the CIA.

      What an interesting set of choices. Of course, you haven’t mentioned a single issue that we have claimed was socialistic and addressed it, such as the philosophies of Obama and his team (e.g., see Van Jones), those who support him, etc. You’ve just ranted.

      But tell me, if racism wasn’t playing some part in some of the right wing opposition to Obama, especially in the birther movement, then what is?

      I think it was probably his awful ideas, how he hid is background (or perhaps you could tell me his college grades and such?), how he was evasive about the birth certificate, etc.

      So using that logic then Van Jones must be racist for being a Truther (hey, wait a minute, you may be right about that!).

      Of course, the real racists are the Democrats who cry “Uncle Tom” whenever black people earn positions due to their qualifications (Rice, Powell, Thomas, etc.). And Republicans are never given credit for that.

      And of course, Republicans aren’t given credit for opposing abortion, which destroys black people at a rate 3x that of whites. And you and Obama want the gov’t to pay for abortions so the ratio will go even higher!

      After all..John McCain WAS born in a foreign country, Panama, and yet curiously noone was questioning whether he was qualified to be President or not.

      Uh, because he was qualified.

      There wasn’t rumors flying around that he was secretly a muslim either.

      McCain didn’t give any evidence of being Muslim, whereas Obama obviously bears tons of bad fruit (mocks the Bible, followed Jeremiah Wright, is pro-abortion, and so much more), so you’d have to be blind not to question his Christianity.

      Then there’s things like this — http://blog.christocentric.com/2009/09/04/obama-disses-christianity-while-embracing-islams-ramadan/

      Is he a Muslim? Probably not. But I don’t think he’s a Christian, either (though of course God is the ultimate judge). Obama appears to worship himself.

      Face it Neil, your side of the political fence has gone batshit nutty.

      Gee, you got me there. None of us are as winsome, reasoned and well thought out as you.

      Now that I’ve addressed your off topic tantrum, perhaps we could get back to the topic of the post, which is how unproductive it is to label someone as racist just because they don’t agree with your political views.

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      1. In the absence of real arguments, the left constantly reverts to personal attacks and accusations of mental illnesses.

        Please consult this video friend:

        Your argument, as with almost all individuals of the liberal persuasion, is “shut up.”

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  7. @Neil:

    “We = Virtually all the conservatives I know who don’t discriminate based on skin color.”

    Not sure how that applies to the greater society Neil, conservative or liberal, black or white.

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    1. DJ,

      Your accusations are like claims about the boogeyman.

      It’s all about scaring intellectual little children (read, liberals), and yet every time we check under the bed we find nothing.

      Please consult my above post. Your argument about racism is really nothing more than “shut up.”

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      1. LCB:

        The very fact of your response to my postings is evidence enough of the REALITY of what I assert. The fact that you can’t see it is tantamount to your socialized indoctrination in the reality that you deny. You’re like another pod in the matrix…sad.

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  8. I’ve said it before: Racism will never die entirely. Small people need something to blame for their own shortcomings and failures. Blaming other races, religions, ethnicities does the trick.

    But as important as it is in this country for one group to treat others as equals, it is important for the victimized group to ignore the small minded who cling to their small mindedness. I think it is harder than ever to come across someone in power who really gives a flying rat’s ass about the color of another man’s skin. (I don’t consider every cop to be “somone in power”–they simply have a degree of authority, by virtue of their job, to abuse—different story).

    I know that I will not suffer racial intolerance, but I won’t get worked up over every joke or epithet thrown about (a good joke being a good joke, will likely offend someone). I also will not suffer a “victim” seeing racists around every corner. I’m sick of both equally, and that’s how equality is meant to be applied.

    Quit blaming others, be he the black man if you are white, or if he’s “the man” if you are black, and just move on.

    I’m so sick of it I can’t even handle discussions about race relations. Just CUT THE CRAP!!! I don’t really care about each person’s experiences. I don’t care about perceptions about American history or who is running the show or how the system was set up. Just CUT THE CRAP and move on.

    Obama could be any freakin’ color of the rainbow. He’s bad for the country and he suckered 52% of the population into voting for him, many of whom, in a very racist way, voted for him BECAUSE he’s half-black. Some of those idiots were white. NEVER, EVER do I consider the race (or gender) of a candidate when I’m about to cast my vote. THIS black man is NOT the black man that should have been our FIRST black man in the White House, if having a black president has any possible meaning at all, which it doesn’t. It’s just that simple.

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    1. @Marshall:

      “I’m so sick of it I can’t even handle discussions about race relations. Just CUT THE CRAP!!! I don’t really care about each person’s experiences. I don’t care about perceptions about American history or who is running the show or how the system was set up. Just CUT THE CRAP and move on. ”

      Well Marshall, I guess you really have a lot to learn about World History, Sociological Study, Psychology and basic observation of HUMANITY if you think it works that way.

      If you can’t see things in the historic and sociological context, then I guess it’s useless trying to discuss solutions with you.

      So with that, Shalom Aleichem and Laila Tov.

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      1. What do I need to know about sociology, psychology or human nature that would amount to anything substantial regarding race relations? Are you a freakin’ man or aren’t you? I’m guessing you are. What more do I need to know? From there, it’s about what kind of man you are and your skin color doesn’t mean squat as far as that goes. So what do I need to know? I’ve already explained what I DO know, that small minded people will always look to the easiest excuse for their own problems. Every such person I’ve met in my life, white, black or otherwise, I’ve said the exact same thing: CUT THE CRAP!!! Grow the hell up! My best and oldest friend spent the first twenty+ years of his life with a totally negative attitude about blacks. I didn’t take it from him and as he has always been much larger than myself, I didn’t care how he took my scolding. Eventually, God be praised, he has long since come to a truer understanding.

        There’s nothing mysterious about racism, except that people on both sides of the color line demand it continues. They demand it by their words and deeds and the worst are those who claim it exists where it doesn’t, thereby belittling those who have truly suffered from the worst manifestations of it. They are the worst because they don’t truly want equality anymore than the Klan wants them to have it. Instead, they want handouts and reparations for wrongs they’ve never suffered. They’re looking for easy money, as well as easy respect. They ain’t gettin’ it from me, anymore than real racists will.

        “White guilt” is not a malady from which I suffer.
        I will not be pressured into atoning for the sins of others because I am of the same race. I will not cowtow to race-baiters, nor will I tolerate knee-jerk accusations of racism because some idiot has no way of defending such a poor choice of president as Barack Obama.

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      2. Marshall:

        You really are a live trip. I honestly don’t really care what you have to say about the issue, you only hear yourself, and there can be no dialouge with close minded indivudials like yourself who cannot or will not look at things from anyones perspective but your own.

        You brought up a whole lot of crap that I said nothing about, which says more about you and your worldview than I ever could.

        White Guilt, Reperations, Hand outs, all words that have nothing to do with what I was saying, HOWEVER, because of the actual filter that I pointed out, that is how your process what I said, which again testfies to the TRUTH of my assessment.

        You can’t see the forest, because you are truly one of the trees deep within it.

        I am really dissapointed with your lack of ability to see beyond yourself, however; it is typical of people who tie themselves to simple minded choices such as “conservative or liberal”.

        You are truly “Ever learning, never coming to a knowledge of Truth”.

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      3. I asked a specific question: What is it I need to know? To go further, what is do you think I’m NOT seeing, being one of the trees and all? Try to be specific in your reply. I’m nothing if not open to learning, but I’m betting you’ve got nothing but your usual ambiguous “Seeing through my eyes” type of stuff. That won’t wash at all, because it’s what you see that I question. C’mon man. Drop the attitude and engage. I can take it.

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      4. No, you sure don’t. You benefit from “white privilage”, because as you have said you will never suffer racial intolerance. You have enough for all of us!

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  9. @marshall

    Dj black adam dont fret. there is a saying” blind to the fact” or “ignorance is bliss” cant tell with this guy.I will go with “blind to the fact.” Marshall may not understand the power of ignorance. Obama could not be 100% black,latino or any other “non aryan” u get the picture. The only way any so called”minority” would ever ascend to any so called “prestigous” position would be for him appear to look and think like his peers.

    Marshall do you understand thepower of ignorance? it has black brothers killing white, latino, asian and black brothers, white brothers killing black,white,asian and latino brothers and so on. remember what the good book says “my people die from lack knowledge”
    Remember a person is smart and people are stupid (ie mob mentality.) so because u and a select few believe what U believe, and my select few and I believe what we believe. Is it fair to call it “crap.” What I see is someone wearing rose colored glass. My question to u is wear can I get a pair?

    My last question to u is are u dating “Ann Coulter” because u seem to have her narrowed-mindedness? Sadly I agree with her on some points its just that she misses so many vital pieces of the equation. She seems to work from the answer instead of the question/problem/cause? Remember in math class u could never just turn in the question and answer, u had to show how the issue was resolved.

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  10. “Marshall do you understand thepower of ignorance?”

    Yes, I do, so I don’t need further demonstration from you. You seem to be joining in DJ’s, “Well, if you don’t know, I’m certainly not going to tell you.” Fine. Add to the crap. Things will improve so much faster that way.

    And speaking of ignorance, you add this:

    “Obama could not be 100% black,latino or any other “non aryan” u get the picture.”

    To what part of my “I don’t care what color he is” statement are you so willfully blind?

    “The only way any so called”minority” would ever ascend to any so called “prestigous” position would be for him appear to look and think like his peers.”

    How sad that you feel this way. But I’ve got news for you: I don’t agree. I’ll be specific: They can look anyway they look. That’s not important as I continue to say over and over and over again. But think like me? Damn straight, Nancy. What fool votes for someone who DOESN’T think the same way? I mean besides Democrats who voted for Obama without even knowing what the sorry creep stands for?

    As for Coulter, I prefer mine with a bit more meat on ’em. But for brains and insight, I’d put her on the list for sure. I’m betting you don’t even understand her answers except that they don’t agree with you. For that, you have the right to call her answers “crap”, though I doubt you could say why.

    Getting back to your “power of ignorance”, you’ll find little of that from my camp, as logic and objective observation are critical to my perspective and points of view. And from my perspective, my points regarding the state of racism in this country, if not the world, are spot on, both from blacks, as well as whites. Neither you, nor DJ have added a damned thing that could bring ANYONE around to whatever the hell it is you think you’ve got rolling around in your heads. I, for one, stand ready to listen and engage whenever either of you wish to enlighten me. What’ve ya got?

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    1. What’s the point? Its as you say. They are all excuses for ‘get rich quick’ schemes.

      Oppression is all in our heads, because we are too lazy to see reality–black and white.

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      1. So, Mizclark, you intend to join in the “I’ll just trash your position without counterpoint” party. The point is that I have continued to insist, demand, BEG for insights of those who have found something troubling in my comments. Still waiting.

        And here’s the freakin’ most galling part of the whole sorry back and forth: we each clam to oppose racism. But apparently, I don’t oppose it to the satisfaction of some who visit here. Seems to me, I oppose it more than even those who have been victimized by it, for they don’t see it within themselves (in their “you wouldn’t/don’t understand” attitudes), and often see it where it doesn’t even exist. (I can almost forgive the latter, as one flinches the most who has been slapped the most.)

        But the lack of response only serves to promote my comments as more legitimate, logical and factual. So you can pretend to shake your heads as if it is ME who lacks understanding. But it seems to me that what should be so obvious to you should have provided you with SOME means of explaining it. Unless you’re full of crap.

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  11. Are you freakin’ kiddin’ me? How many different ways to I have to ask, DJ? My last several postings have been explicit in my desire to be enlightened. Do I need to draw up legal papers and get them notarized for ya?

    Perhaps this will help: Come visit my blog (not a shameless self-promotion) and I will post a thread dedicated for your benefit. There you will have ample opportunity to fill the comments section as you see fit to give a point of view from one who opposes racism to another, and instruct me on my deficiencies. I will disallow any other comments but my own should I need clarification or to correct what I suspect may be misunderstandings of your own. Should that not work, we can meet. I’m in the NW ‘burbs and we can confer over pints of Guinness as it was meant to be.

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    1. @Marshall:

      Very well then Marshall, I do believe we both actually oppose racism.

      I will further admit, that LCB and Dan had really pissed me off with that whole separatism stuff, and I might have been a tad bit oversensitive in my response to you and less patient and rational.

      I will visit your blog for the exchange you propose and would enjoy having a face to face conversation over a drink (mine would have to be of the A&W, Mug or Barg’s persuasion) since you and I are both in the Chicago area.

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  12. Hey All

    I believe you are not really getting the message that Marshall is trying to make. I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong.

    What I get from his message is this: The people he meets get instant respect. After all, they’ve done nothing to deserve otherwise. However, if he learns of something they’ve done or directly witnesses something that would degrade his respect, it is not because of the person’s color.

    I believe most people, right, left, christian, non-christian, black, white, red, yellow – you get the point, live their lives in this fashion.

    The real racists in the world are a vast minority and very vocal. Being vocal, they get more attention than they deserve.

    And I’m sorry DJ, but just because I react negatively to some racists attempt to paint me as racist does not make me a racist.

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    1. Hi Mark,

      I’m not sure if that is where DJBA is coming from, but that aside I agree with your assessment.

      I had an Archie Bunker type neighbor when we lived in our first house. He casually used a racial epithet for every non-white group, but believe it or not he treated the individuals with respect and was a really nice guy and great neighbor.

      I’m not sure if it worked, but I tried to coach him this way: “Some people are jerks (uh, it is possible that I used “slightly” stronger language at the time). If they are white jerks, you call them jerks. But if they are black, Indian, Asian, etc. jerks then you call them [fill in the blank]. Perhaps you could just focus on the jerk part and not the race part?”

      Like

    2. @Mark:

      You wrote: “And I’m sorry DJ, but just because I react negatively to some racists attempt to paint me as racist does not make me a racist.”

      Sorry mark, I don’t recall saying that. If you are unclear on something I said, please ask for clarification, I am generally happy to oblige any sincere request.

      Like

  13. I’ve been following this thread with interest, but avoided commenting until now because, not being American, and having never been to the US, I know little about many of your political and social issues. I seldom comment on posts that are only about US issues, preferring more general discussion.

    But race is race anywhere, and where I grew up it was the most fundamentally divisive aspect of society, affecting us all deeply, on both sides of the divide, albeit in much different ways.

    This is how bad it was. When I was a young child in the 70’s, we often used to go on long road trips around our beautiful country. When we stopped at a service station, we would check the signs over the toilet entrances to make sure we were going into the one for whites. The post office had separate queues. We had a domestic worker (except back then she was called a “maid”) who lived in her own quarters behind our house. She was relatively lucky, she had permission to work in a white area; the infamous “dompas”. I remember police vans coming up the road and others working there with no pass would run and hide, or else be rounded up, put in the back of the van, and “deported” back to whichever reservation they had been assigned to. Farm workers were often paid part of their weekly wage in alcohol, talk about the opium of the people.

    Cruel, violent, horrific, institutionalised racism.

    The mindset that allowed this? We didn’t think much about black people at all, didn’t ever speak to them unless it was to tell them to do something, they just didn’t enter our sheltered little world at all. We lived in a police state, information was strictly controlled, and we were genuinely baffled when blacks did things like burn down their schools. How could they do this, I mean, we give them schools, and they burn them down, and try to burn ours down as well? What’s up with that?

    When I was about 15, after a canoeing trip down the Orange River (on the border between South Africa and Namibia) we spent the night in a small town called Springbok. I went for a walk after dark, and found myself opposite the police station. I could see in through the open front door, and saw two burly white cops jumping on something that at first I thought was a pillow. Then I realised it was a black man’s head. I was rooted to the spot. One of the policemen came outside for a smoke. “Good evening”, he said, and I replied the same, my voice shaking. I will never forget that sight as long as I live. I think that was the night I stopped being quite the little conservative (and please remember that in different countries these words mean different things).

    One of my schoolfriends lent me the Communist Manifesto (it was banned, therefore even more attractive at the time). Now I never was, and never will be a communist (I believe in the free market but also think it should have a strict eye kept on it and never be fully trusted), but if I was black, I know that I would be the most vociferous white hater out there. It is to the credit of the vast majority of my fellow countrymen that they are not like that, and I cannot explain why that is; the best that I can come up with is that African culture is very community oriented and ultimately more accepting and forgiving. I said in class one day in 1986 that the “stupid” system of apartheid wouldn’t last more than another five years. I was right on the time scale, but wrong about it being stupid. Apartheid was anything but stupid. It was a viciously clever way of wresting control of the country’s vast natural resources and putting them in the hands of a small minority.

    In the late 80’s and early 90’s I attended the very left wing University of Cape Town (known back then as “Moscow on the hill”). We marched, threw rocks at the cops, got teargassed and water cannoned, but at the end of the day I was still a priviledged white kid who got to go home to a nice house in a good suburb, while most of those who marched with me got to go home to an iron shack.

    In 1992 white people voted in a referendum, which really amounted to a “yes” or “no” to continue reforms that would lead to apartheid’s demise. Although we knew this was important, for me it never felt right that we should even get to decide the matter. But we still had to do it, and “yes” won the day.

    So why am I telling you all this? If I have to be brutally honest with myself (the same brutal self-analysis that caused me to toss my faith), I never really truly cared about the people involved. I cared a lot about the principles and the ideology, but I guess blacks were still just blacks in my world. I think I get what DJBA and others are trying to say without really being able to say it, because I can’t properly articulate my own feelings on this, they are so complex. I can sympathise to an extent with tiring of the “race card,” believe me, as a white African I’ve seen the full deck. But things are not so simple, and “moving on” implies that you know from where you’ve come, and know to where you’re going.

    One quick thing on Obama. On one level he’s just another politician, with some good ideas and some other quite alarming ones. But he’s not a dictator, and you still have a democracy. Here’s my 2 cents worth: I think John McCain would probably have made a better president. He struck me as an honourable man who had served his country in difficult circumstances and maintained his integrity throughout. But your country is in need of an image makeover, big time. I think Bush was a better president than he ever got credit for, and he did what he had to do, but the image of the US has suffered in the rest of the world. You may not think this is important, and maybe it isn’t, but another old white guy is not what you need. You need Obama because for the first time in a long time you gained some credibility, and took a step in the direction of looking inwards rather than being the world’s policeman.

    I know I’ll get shot down in flames by almost everyone who reads this blog for saying this, but I want to see religion going the same way as racism, not because they are the same thing but because both by their very nature produce artificial “us and them” scenarios. I’m not referring to personal belief in God, but I am referring to organised religion and in particular theologies of election.

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    1. Hi Racing Boo,

      Great comments, thanks. I really appreciate your candor. One of my best friends is from S. Africa and he has shared similar stories. I need to hear more from him as well.

      I certainly won’t shoot you down in flames for the last paragraph. I’ll just scratch my head over what I see as a non sequitor at the end of a powerful comment.

      Yes, “religion” can result in all sorts of bad things. But I don’t see how theologies of election play into that, at least if you mean the Christian views (e.g., Calvinism vs. Arminianism). Neither one entails Christians forcing someone to believe against their will. In fact, if properly understood, both would hold that it would be un-Christian and impossible for a human to force another human to truly believe something like that.

      I suppose any non-pluralistic religion (and even the pluralistic ones, if they are honest) could have unnecessary “us and them” components. But with Christianity it isn’t artificial: One’s eternal destination and worldview in this life are quite binary. We don’t say that out of pride or because we’re on commission, but out of love for others and obedience to God.

      Perhaps I misunderstood your point?

      Like

      1. Thanks Neil, I think I should have left the last paragraph out. I’m not referring to Christianity as you and I both understand it, rather to things such as Zionism where Israel believes it has a divine right to the land. The result is apartheid-style divisions of the region.

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    2. Perhaps I should have just ignored the last paragraph and focused exclusively on the rest. I think you summed up things very objectively. I’m interested in what others have to say on that.

      And I either forgot or didn’t realize you’d never been to the U.S.! Be sure to make Texas part of your plans if you ever come 😉 .

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  14. I thought the last paragraph was a perfect ending *sniffle*.

    You’ve touched me in ways you can’t imagine. Maybe I can clear it up a little. I don’t think Racing Boo was saying to give up religion as in giving up God, but in the sense of where it become divisive. There have been plenty of times where we had to table religion for arguement sake.

    Neil even you have to admit you have a melting pot of commenters who generally stay on topic and disagree respectfully. I believe if we are able to succeed at it here on the blog we should be able to in the world.

    Our faith holds us together whether we speak of Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, Allah etc. Contrary to what you say Neil Christianity has been forced and continues to be forced on some individuals because of ‘social norm’.

    A prime example would be the African slaves here in America. Many of them were Muslim before enslavement and forced to give up God, or convert to the God of their masters. Its plainly obvious Abraham, Moses, and other patriarchs even Jesus were not lost to the African people.

    It has often left me wondering how the Africans worshipped Jesus before ‘the change.’

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    1. Mizclark

      Here is somthing I wrote that you may find usuelf in regard to your last:

      “Christianity is the White Man’s Religion!” This is the charge I often hear forwarded to African Americans (and other Black Africans of the Diaspora) in regard to them being Christians.

      This comes from a variety of sources, but most often Muslims (of the various types here in the Americas: NOI, Moorish American Science, 5 Percent Nation of gods and earths, traditional Sunnis etc.); from Black Jewish and Hebrew groups both Messianic and Non-Messianic, from people of the indigenous African faiths and from secular atheist.

      Without question, Europeans missionaries, both Catholic (since 1450) and Protestant (since 1700) brought their form of Christianity to the African continent. It is also established and true that in the European colonies of North, Central and South America, and the Caribbean islands, that Europeans forced their religion upon the Black Africans (and often times the indigenous population of the colonies). However, in some cases, the Blacks that became slaves were Muslim, Christian and even Jewish by faith before they were forced to comply with “Christianity” as presented by the Europeans.

      It is also without question, that Europeans sometimes used their form of Christianity to subjugate the African physically, psychologically and spiritually. So should the children of the African Diaspora reject the religion of Christianity all together, or embrace the African faiths? Or should the children of the African Diaspora create a new synthesized religion of aspects of the African faiths, or a new faith all together?

      There is a third option, however, before I get there let us look at some other facts and dispel some erroneous presuppositions. The most vocal proponents of the idea that the only way Blacks every knew about Christ was from the White missionary (aside from the ethnocentric Whites themselves) are the Muslims. Many of the Islamic faith often posit that “Christianity is the White Mans religion”. Calling Christianity a religion forced on the African slave and the African people while simultaneously trying to infer, imply or out right state that Islam is the chosen religion of the African. That is really a half truth at best.

      The fact is this. Islam arrived in Africa in 615, at this time a few of Muhammad’s followers immigrated to the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum and set up a community there under the protection of the Christian Ethiopian king. This dismantles the assertion of Islam positing Christianity being “the White Man’s religion”, as the King that protected the Muslims was in fact a Black African and a Christian.

      Well, how was it, 600 years after Christ and 850 years before the first European missionaries an African King was a Christian? The Bible tells part of the story in the book of Acts chapter 8 verses 26-40.

      Initially, Apostle Phillip is approached by an Ethiopian Hebrew (as we can ascertain as the Ethiopian was reading from the Book of Isaiah) The Ethiopian had been to Jerusalem to worship, and inquired of Phillip the messianic meaning of the scriptures he was reading. Phillip shared the Gospel with the Ethiopian, that Jesus was in fact this Messiah that the Hebrew scriptures spoke of. This Ethiopian who was a servant to the Ethiopian Queen (Candace) returned to Ethiopia, and as we see by this Ethiopian King who protected the Muslims 600 years later, the Gospel stuck.

      Further, the Apostle Mark was instrumental in spreading the Gospel in Africa, as his ministry founded the church in Egypt. From these two examples, we can establish two things clearly, 1.) that there was a Jewish presence in Africa (possibly from Solomon’s interaction with the Queen of Sheba) and 2.) the Gospel of the Kingdom of God has been present in Africa from the beginnings of the revelation of that message.

      We also see that many of these Africans accepted Jesus as the Messiah and were Christians long before the European Missionaries OR Muslims arrived on the continent. Islam arrived peacefully in the beginning, but history tells us about the Arab invaders, who raped black women and young boys and enslaved black men in Africa. Forced conversions were often the order of the day of the Islamic faith. A cursory look at current events in Africa shows that Muslims in many parts of Africa (Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia, Chad, etc.) are still doing just that. A Muslim talking about the evils of European colonialism or imperialism, while obviously ignoring or conveniently overlooking the evils of the Arab Islamic invasion of Africa, is quite misleading and very disingenuous.

      The next question is, are the Indigenous Faiths the true faith of the children of the African Diaspora? Well, as with the example of the Solomon and Sheba and the Ethiopian Jew that Apostle Phillip shared the Gospel of the Kingdom with, I would argue that the faith of the God of Abraham was on the continent for quite sometime, there are examples of Jewish tribes throughout Africa, this happened in different times and for many reasons, but nonetheless present in Africa along side the many indigenous faiths was the God of Abraham, the Father of Jesus. (for more on Jews of Africa check here.

      So, there is the 3rd option, for those who have a relationship with Jesus above and in spite of religion. To understand, that there was Christianity in Africa long before any Arab Muslim or White European Christian arrived on the continent of our Mothers and Fathers.

      That is to base our faith in Christ, on Christ words in the scriptures, the same words that Apostle Phillip shared to his fellow Jew the Black Ethiopian, the same words that Apostle Mark shared to the Egyptians, and the same words that made a MIGHTY CHRISTIAN King of Africa, a Black Man, give refuge to those of another faith, as opposed to killing them or forcing them into his faith. I’m just saying…

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  15. Yes…Thank you.

    I have been studying this particular subject for quite sometime, and the point I was referencing. If the tribes knew Jesus before the Europeans, why was the transition such a struggle–especially if it was the same God.

    For those who doubt the evidence is in the Bible you only have to read. Whenever there was a famine in the land, strife among men where life was in danger, people sought refuge on the African continent. Egyptians were close neighbors with the Israelites and I always thought it strange the histories are told seperately.

    Like

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