False teacher fesses up

contradiction.jpgI commented on a post at Marshall’s and that got a couple of my fans all fired up.  They seem to have some bitterness issues and used the thread to work out some anger.  That’s inexpensive therapy, I suppose.  One I just ignored, as usual.  It works well. 

But another one was too much fun to pass up.  You see, Geoffrey has been quite vocal that he and I are both Christians, despite his rejection of so many essentials of the faith.  On the thread he even said, “the Christian faith is large enough, and has always been large enough, to hold together all sorts of ideas and persons and perspectives that differ one from another. That is just a statement of fact.”  He has written all sorts of posts mocking my views (I quit reading his blog long ago, but I see the titles of the links that come in). 

I rebutted his false accusations and fallacies.  Nothing new there.  But what was so fun is that by the time the thread was through he had clearly contradicted himself as well.  He completely conceded my larger point (that we don’t have the same religion) and proved that he was just as passive-aggressive and deceptive as I had been saying all along. 

Here’s where he really went off the rails:

I know you think Mormons are going to hell. C’mon, dude, fess up. Your God is a mass murderer; worse, your God created billions of human beings only to consign them to eternal perdition because they don’t read the Bible the way you do.

First, his comment didn’t even characterize my views properly. I have never claimed that people go to Hell for not reading the Bible the way I do.  I claimed that people go to Hell for the reasons described in the Bible: They are sinners who die without having faith in Jesus.  Pretty basic stuff.  And of course, there was nothing to “fess up” about. I’ve done whole posts about why Mormons aren’t Christians, so why would Geoffrey accuse me of hiding that?

But the bigger revelation is that the truth finally came out (Truth being that which corresponds to reality, a definition Geoffrey denies in theory but can’t escape in practice). 

He conceded that we worship different Gods. I’ve been saying that whatever he is (spiritually speaking), I’m not, and whatever I am, he’s not. He’s denied that and said we’re both Christians and criticized me for not having a big enough tent.

He finally admitted that he thinks that “my” God is not the right one.   The God of the Bible is a mass murderer in his view, and Hell is not real.  Mormons go to Heaven without faith in the real Jesus.  Presumably everyone else does as well.

Geoffrey is entitled to his views and I respect his religious freedom to hold and express them.  My point all along was that it is not Christianity and definitely isn’t in the same camp I’m in.  He denied that all along, until now.  He obviously thinks I am teaching falsehoods about God, i.e., he thinks I’m a false teacher.

So he has shown that I’m right on both counts: I have reason to call him a false teacher and he is just as passive-aggressive as the types I mentioned in my first comment at Marshall’s place (“Postmodern thinking = wimpy and passive-aggressive. I’d much rather talk with someone with a clear view that they’ll defend than someone who insists that we can both be right (while secretly being sure that only he/she is right).”) 

Still, I wish him the best and pray that he repents and believes someday and stops making false claims about Jesus and Christianity.

Closure is nice.

Also see The importance of sound doctrine.  Read the verses carefully and you’ll see why addressing false teachers is biblical and important.  I just added 2 Corinthians 6:14: Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

0 thoughts on “False teacher fesses up”

  1. There are unfortunately many false teachers of Christianity out there, Neil. I don’t believe you to be one of them.

    Far too many churches are forgetting the real meaning of Christianity in order to get more members. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. Christianity isn’t for the “if it feels good do it” crowd, ya know? Christianity has rules and far too many don’t like those rules so there are a lot of churches bending them to please the masses. I think it’s pitiful!

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  2. Mizclark, I don’t see how that would be a reason to not commit to a church. In fact, you couldn’t reconcile that with commands like Hebrews 10:24-25. But if organizations are different faiths altogether or teach false doctrines like Geoffrey’s then you wouldn’t want to be yoked to them.

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  3. Hi Joanne,

    Good one! Actually, I read it a long time ago. Believe it or not, I am very winsome when dealing with people in person. I’ve shared the Gospel with people in every major religion and cult multiple times, plus countless agnostics and atheists, and have yet to start a Jihad. And I try to engage anyone I can hospitably, including Geoffrey. But as noted above, when someone is being dishonest with you that makes real dialogue rather difficult.

    And I also read the Bible, which is pretty clear about not tolerating false teachers. If I don’t win them over as friends I’m OK with that. My main objective is to demonstrate their falsehoods so others can see them. If they convert as well, that is terrific. But I don’t hold my breath on that.

    As I noted another comment recently, we could learn something from some of the church fathers. From Irenaeus’s Against Heresies:

    Polycarp himself, when Marcion once met him and asked, “Don’t you recognize me?” replied, “I do indeed: I recognize the firstborn of Satan.”

    So careful were the apostles and their disciples not even to converse with any mutilators of the truth, Paul also said, “After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions, since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned [Titus 3:10-11].

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  4. Believe it or not, I am very winsome when dealing with people in person, or via my blog.

    Fixed that for you pal! 😉

    The fact that you do the following, and do them well:

    1. share the Gospel with people in every major religion and cult multiple times, plus countless agnostics and atheists…

    2. try to engage anyone you can hospitably!

    3. you also read the Bible, looking for His guidance, versus cherry picking verses to support your point of view (exigesis).

    separates you and your detractors. They seemingly prefer to castigate those who do not validate their notions of Truth, God, faith, justice, etc.

    Best,
    Joseph

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  5. This “big tent” metaphor works great for the GOP, but not so well for Christianity. Everything about the Bible leans toward specifics and it is our job to understand those to the best of our abilities. There are some issues that aren’t what reasonable people would call worthy of contentious debate, but other things that deserve such serious study. We’ll always be left with denominations (until the 2nd Coming I suppose) over the minor details. Most of those have less to do with dogma than church polity. But there are points where differences of opinion are just to vastly wide where there cannot be room for both. More often than not, I think, the debate becomes whether or not we are arguing for God’s sake or our own.

    Your mention of 2 Corinthians is timely for me as I intend to begin a little “last word” as my time as Council President is Constitutionally termed out, using those exact verses. It is my hope that I can provoke a serious discussion amongst my fellow members regarding seceding from the UCC and becoming a community church, or even aligning with a more Biblically sound, less heretical denomination. My pastor believes a diversity of voices makes the denomination stronger. I think it deludes God’s message severely. It’s the difference between being on the same page or not even being in the same library. Big tents usually have three rings. I want a church of God, not a circus.

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  6. I used to think Geoffrey was very intelligent because he has such a remarkably large vocabulary. Yet, he continues to repeat the same old tired, easily refuted arguments that many a sophomore espouses.

    I have since come the conclusion that Geoffrey is not very intelligent at all.

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  7. Come on. At the end of a heated thread, we’ve all said things we regretted. I think Geoff would concede that there is one God. You would, too. Therefore, by definition, you, him and I all strive to worship and fellowship with the same, one, God. No matter how off or on my conception of God — or yours, or his, or the Mormons, or the Muslims. One god: God.

    I, too, wonder how my conception of God and yours, and others, can be so divergent. But, at the end of the day, I will not deny your place at the table, or under the tent, as long as your profess Jesus. Because I’m neither the setter of the table nor the keeper of the tent. I’m not God.

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  8. As you might expect I disagree. There is one real God but many gods.

    Mormons talk about someone named Jesus but it is not the Jesus I worship. That doesn’t mean I’m right, but it means we can’t both be right.

    Same thing with Geoffrey. He even said that “my” God is a mass murderer. So if mine is and his isn’t, then logically speaking we aren’t worshiping the same God and can’t both be right.

    He was finally honest about it, which I appreciate.

    You are right in saying you aren’t God, and I’m not God either. But if the Muslims, Hindus, Geoffrey-types, Christians, etc. have irreconcilable definitions of God then at most only one is right.

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  9. I don’t think anybody is “right.” No “definition” of God is correct. I think some are closer than others.

    As for the mass murder, the Judeo-Christian God that you, I and GKS worship is depicted as such in the O.T. What we do with that depiction is the question.

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  10. I think God’s descriptions of himself in the Bible are accurate, though I would agree that we may not comrehend him perfectly. Not sure if that is in line with what you were saying or not.

    Geoffrey can speak for himself, but he was rather clear previously that his god is not the one I worship.

    Yes, the God of the Bible takes lives. He takes them all, eventually. Jesus had zero issues with the OT, and He was God in flesh. So I’m sticking with the OT as written.

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  11. This was getting some hits in my stats for some reason so I re-read it. Just realized I’d never responded to the last comment.

    No, of course I don’t insist that non-Christians stick with the Old Testament as written. I don’t expect them to follow the NT, either.

    Though I was reminded that I need to do a better job of following Titus 3 (see the 5th comment above).

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  12. Hey neil I just read that entire exchange and boy was that a lot of words lol. But in the end it all comes down to this:

    John 3:16 (King James Version)

    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Now this one and only (Jesus) Son has been misrepresented and He even said Himself that false Christ and false teachers would come:

    Mark 13:22 (King James Version)

    22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

    Matthew 7:15 (King James Version)

    15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Those who live in deception can continue to lie, twist, and outright deny the word of God, but they can never change the message. That faith in the death, burial, ressurrection of Jesus Christ (the one in the bible) can save us. Period!

    Continue to Speak the truth sir….God Bless!

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