Update: Be sure to read Playing the Race Card on Gay Marriage. Carlotta highlights some of the absurdities of the pro-LGBTQ movement. They have a lot of nerve trying to co-opt the Civil Rights movement. From the article she analyzed:
Well, let’s see. The civil rights once denied to black Americans included the right to register as a voter, the right to cast a ballot, the right to use numerous public facilities, the right to get a fair hearing in court, the right to send their children to an integrated public school, and the right to equal opportunity in housing and employment. Have gay people been denied any of these rights? Have they been forced to sit in the back of buses? Confined to segregated neighborhoods? Barred from serving on juries? Subjected to systematic economic exploitation?
Then there’s this from Verum Serum:
Oddly enough, I haven’t been able to find one gay activist/gay rights spokesperson who has been able to articulate HOW these two are the same.
Let me give it a shot…
The history of blacks in the United States begins with slavery and continues on to various forms of societal discrimination that has included: denial of voting rights, denial of property ownership rights, denial of equity in education, denial of access to public facilities, denial of access to businesses, denial of equal access to public transportation, etc.
Homosexuals in the United States have had to endure…society’s refusal to allow them to change the definition of marriage.
You know what? The homosexuals are RIGHT. They are EXACTLY the same as blacks! Viva la Revolucion!
At times I’m tempted to say, go ahead and give them “gay marriage.” The sooner they get all they think they want the sooner they’ll realize that they are still miserable and separated from God.
The problem is that one of the things on their laundry list is to silence the church, because the Bible will always be a constant reminder that they aren’t fooling God. And I’m not keen on giving up the church just yet.
—
A post titled When MY Generation Speaks by a 30-ish liberal friend railed against people in favor of Proposition 8 in California.
This entry is not to argue the inherent rights of gays to marry – not because there aren’t plenty of people who would love to debate this but because the debate would change nothing. Exit polling clearly indicates people make this decision based on dogma, not on logic – and if I have learned one thing in life, it is that reasoning with dogma is like talking to a wall.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too, with dogma such as, “Haters! Irrational! Uneducated! You want to send gays to internment camps! You’re forcing your religion on us! Of course we wouldn’t teach kindergarteners about this! Etc.!”
Here is some logic for those who are interested:
- Same sex unions can never provide a mother and a father to a child, so the State has no interest in promoting or regulating them.
- Marriage is a union of a man and a woman.
- Gay couples already get benefits from the State of California. This was all about affirmation.
- The judges ignored the will of the people, so the amendment made perfect sense.
- Sexual preferences are not Civil Rights. Skin color is morally neutral, sexual behavior is not.
- Oxymoronic “same sex marriage” doesn’t mean that marriage is redefined as man/woman, woman/woman or man/man, it redefines it to say that it is not just between a man and a woman — it is whatever anyone wants to define it to be. The same “anti-discrimination” rationale is immediately available for polygamists, incestuous couples, etc.
Note that I didn’t even refer to the Bible. If people want to know what God has to say — and they should, since He created the universe and us — here’s a summary:
- 100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the clearest and strongest possible terms.
- 100% of the verses referencing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.
- 100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).
- 0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.
- In short, to advance “same sex marriage” is to be perpetually shaking your fist at God in rebellion.
Here’s more from the other blogger:
That the proposition passed is an injustice and is unjustifiable – but look to the horizon. People, especially the dogmatized, fear that which is different – that which they do not understand. Just as the elderly and the dogmatized were the most fervent opponents of desegregation and of women’s suffrage, they are holding back progress on this issue – the civil rights issue of my generation. But my generation will have the last word, and years from now, when gay rights are considered as inalienable as the rights of blacks and women, we will look back with shame and confusion at those who stood against the tide of equality.
Actually, we do understand it. We don’t fear what is different, we fear what it will do to innocent people and the structure of the foundation of society.
And as usual this guy and his bigoted, shameful generation pull up the drawbridge on people with different sexual preferences. They pat themselves on the back for supporting gay rights but ignore preferences of others.
What about the “Civil Rights” of those who want polygamy, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, and who knows what else? If marriage is not just for a man and a woman, then who says it has to be just for humans, or just for two people, or just for non-siblings, or just for living people, etc.? The reasoning for same sex unions would apply to them as well. And don’t tell me that judges wouldn’t rationalize those. Any group that can see unlimited abortion rights in the Constitution has a remarkable — albeit perverted — creative streak.
I realize how tempting it is for people to insist that those who disagree with them are irrational bigots, but the facts do not support their arguments.
I am glad that his generation has the right to speak and I concede that they may get their way at the ballot box someday. I just hope that more of his generation exercise their right to think critically as well.
Eternity Matters 
I suppose I’m in an extreme minority, but to me this isn’t about the morality of relationships between same-sex people. It’s about the definition of a word and the function of that concept. “Marriage” is defined and works a certain way. Since it is defined and works a certain way, the concepts of “same-sex” and “marriage” stuck together simply aren’t rational. It’s like a cat who complains “If you define ‘dog’ that way, I can never be a dog!!! Talk about hate! Talk about discrimination! You’re evil!!!”
I heard it put this way. If you call a “tail” a “leg,” how many legs does a dog have? The answer is “4.” Call a tail what you want; it isn’t a leg. Calling same-sex relationships “marriage” doesn’t make them marriage. They don’t meet the definition. They don’t provide the same function. They aren’t … marriage. That’s not a matter of “civil rights,” “immoral conduct,” or “religious views.” It’s a matter of definition and function.
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Good points, Stan. When my oldest daughter was in 9th or 10th grade, she casually observed that “same-sex marriage” was an oxymoron. We had never discussed the issue prior to that or even much about homosexual behavior in general. It was just that obvious to her.
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Neil, wow I don’t know about opening that can of worms. But if they do legalized marrying dead folks I ‘m going marry one that died rich so I can get a check. I was going to say you can’t marry a dead person because marriage is till death do us part, but I guess if you can change the man and woman part of it you can change the rest of it( the vows). I know I don’t want it to be legal for child molester to a marry child. If a adult wants to marry and animal that their business and God help them.
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If the dead person can give his or her consent, you two should be able to marry.
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Great post, Neil.
Whenever we bring up the gay-marriage-will-lead-to-this-and-that card, that is when I see the real close-mindedness coming forth from the pro gay marriage folks. To somehow not be able to see the logic behind same-sex marriage opening the door for other deviants is a crock.
They say, “Bestiality is way different, and everyone knows that that is a genuine perversion.”
What they fail to accept is that bestiality is to anti-Prop 8 as same-sex marriage is to heterosexuals. While anti-Prop 8 people may see bestiality as disgusting and horrible and that no one would ever try to legalize that, that is what pro-Prop 8 people feel about same-sex marriage. In other words, anything can happen. To reason otherwise is to blatantly ignore recent history.
Thanks again for the post.
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I agree this vote has more to do with dogma than anything else. Regardless of what you believe this is a DOUBLE STANDARD! If it weren’t most of the population wouldn’t have a tongue for the lies they tell, one-hand from the thefts committed, blind in one or both eyes for looking at someone crazy, and the list goes on and on.
If there is to be a transition to ‘God’s law’ then it should be a full transition not just what is convenient. If homosexuals are not allowed to marry because of the marriage law, then it would seem to me DEATH ROW should be filled with adulterous violators including your precious McCain and his lovely wife Cindy!
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Mizclark,
I didn’t follow that at all. No one is punishing homosexuals or taking away their ability to have relationships. We are just saying that the word “marriage” does not apply and the gov’t has no reason to encourage or affirm these relationships. Your comment sounded like their radical, incohent rants.
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syinly wants to marry a dead person to gain their inheritance. I think that’s a great idea. I’m thinking Howard Hughes. That would be both same sex and opposite life (dead & alive). Seems like a lot of people would be signing up with him though, would it be first come first serve?
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Has my cynicism gotten me in trouble again? I tried to tone it down I promise, but some things are so ridiculous to me its crazy!
The Bible is as clear about homosexual relationships as it is heterosexual ones. You may feel my statements are radical, but they are fact. My passion comes from the hatred surrounding this issue. I commend you for respectfully disagreeing, but others have not been so graceful.
People are focused on the wrong thing. It is a fact there are those who live outside of God’s Kingdom. Where is the justice and order for them? Jesus teaches us there is grace and forgiveness for everyone. If you ask me it should have never made the ballot! It shouldn’t even be discussed!
The devil has turned homosexuality (gluttony) into a CIRCUS and everyone is falling for it hook line and sinker!
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Mizclark, if we were saying heterosexual sins were ok but not homosexual ones then you might have a point. But I don’t see anyone suggesting that. We aren’t saying polygamy is OK but homosexual “marriage” is not. There is no inconsistency.
Re. the hatred surrounding this issue – if you can’t see where the real hatred is coming from, you need to watch the protests a little more closely.
And once again, I parse arguments into religious and secular for good reasons. I’m not expecting pagans to adhere to religious arguments. I will gladly debate “gay marriage” or abortion without the Bible. It is just that as a Christian I know these things are wrong and bad for society. It is no surprise to find plenty of reasons outside the Bible to support these views.
Jesus said there is grace and forgiveness for everyone who repents and believes.
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Great post, Neil! I agree with you 100%!
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I didn’t mean to imply there were any inconsistencies. Its hard to approach this without my usual cynicism and sounding like some crazed bigot.
I only wanted to point out the Bible cannot be used to make this argument because the concept of marriage the way God intended has become a joke.
Homosexuals are not being denied their civil rights and it is mortifying that it has been compared to the Civil Rights Movement.
The fact that the Constitution of the United States of America once described us as 3/5 of a human being should have been ’nuff said!
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Thanks for the clafication, Mizclark. Is it safe to say that we both agree that people would be better off following God’s plan for human sexuality? I concede that heterosexuals (Christian and non-) have made a mess of marriage. But why make things worse?
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Mizclark, I don’t want to hijack Neil’s blog onto a tangent, but shy would you say “the concept of marriage the way God intended has become a joke.”
I know the divorce rate in this country is ridiculous. Choose whatever number you want. If you assume 50% of all marriages end in divorce, that means 50% DON”T end in divorce. I’m not saying 1/2 good is good. But I would say that 1/2 of the marriages are not a joke.
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White gays, who are some of the most bigoted, arrogant humans on the planet are way above the average black person socially, economically, and educationally. Even other black gays. And many of them have walked in that privelege all their lives. They even boast about their collective “buying power” which is expected to reach beyond into the trillions of dollars by 2012.
Yet, they have the unmitigated audacity to be enraged that black folk wont roll over, smile and sign x on the dotted line for thier manifested abominations.
Its the yessah massah principle all over again.
But like you said Neil the REAL GOAL is to get to a position of political power where they can once and for all silence (or imprision) the remant in the church which wont bow to their godless monstrosities. I beleive that day will come given their lust for power and vengeance. We can only prepare ourselves to stand no matter what.
Their infiltration of the church is part of that plan via the gay christian movement.
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MizClark, thanks for your comments. I really appreciate them because they are prime example of how unsubstantiated emotionalism is driving those who support homosexual marriage. They abandon logic, facts, truth, and all other pertinent data to argue emotional justification based on a false premise.
Stunning.
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Excellent post, Neil, and there’s a lot of food for thought here in the comment section too.
As one of my commenters remarked on a post I recently did about gay activists abusing an elderly woman and threatening a church congregation during church services, “it didn’t take them long to feel empowered by the election of Obama, did it?”
Some people don’t understand how I can remain an Episcopalian when the Episcopal church has gone so liberal. It’s because our Diocese out of Houston, TX, is still very conservative. If that ever changes, then I’m out of there, along with two-thirds of our congregation.
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Great post and update Neil!
I had to chuckle on your update where you wrote this from Verum Serum:
That was too funny!
Thanks for the update to my post. That article by the Boston Globe writer and what Verum Serum wrote were excellent examples of what’s wrong with the gay rights movement comparing themselves to the civil rights movement.
Just hope this gets out to the activist judges and our Gov. Arnold so that they can truly weigh whether or not Prop 8 should be overturned.
And Ly, that was very funny on marrying the dead rich man! Point on! Lol!
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Thanks, excellent points! I love it when comments could stand alone as excellent blog posts.
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Yes Neil that is exactly what I am saying. Scripture warns the consequences of deviant behavior….ALL deviant behavior. Just as some choose not to believe in God, some choose not to heed His warnings if they do believe.
For our non-believing friends think of it as a history book. This has been a law since man became civilized. We were battling other species for control of the planet and this law was necessary for our success and survival.
While you may think your desire to have a meaningful committed relationship is being denied, it isn’t. This is another reason why I feel it has no place in government, it would be an infringement of civil rights from either side of the issue.
@ Randy- Marriage is not a joke (I’m married), but concepts of it are. Its a quiet secret there are plenty of homosexuals out there with marriages that can’t hold a candle to us. They didn’t need approval from the government or society either.
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