Pro-choice and pro-slavery reasoning

This is a rerun from 2007.

pro-choice-baby.jpgA couple readers were offended by one of the points in the Nancy Pelosi and bad pro-abortion reasoning post, so I thought I would clarify and expand on those thoughts.  Here is the offending section:

Ms. Pelosi also uses this poor reasoning to defend abortion:

“If you don’t want an abortion, you don’t believe in it, [then] don’t have one. But don’t tell somebody else what they can do in terms of honoring their responsibilities,” Pelosi adds.

Slave-owners used the same argument: “If you don’t like slavery, don’t own slaves.”  But of course both arguments make a major, unproven assumption, namely that another human being isn’t involved in the equation.   

The most important thing to note is that I never said pro-choicers were pro-slavery.  I merely pointed out that slave-owners used bad pro-slavery reasoning that ignored the humanity of the slaves, and pro-choicers who use similar reasoning are ignoring the humanity of the unborn.   If people understand what I am saying there and are still offended, then I’m prepared to live with that.

It is a well documented fact that both pro-legalized abortion and pro-slavery people have used this type of reasoning on an extensive basis:

  • “It is acceptable, because they aren’t fully human.”
  • “If you don’t want one, don’t have one.  Don’t impose your moral values on me.”
  • “They are better off this way, otherwise they may be unwanted, poor or disabled.”

Slavery and abortion both deny the humanity and dignity of living human beings who have beating hearts and can feel pain. 

Slavery was once legal in the United States, but it was always immoral.  Abortion is currently legal, but it has always been immoral. 

When one human being gets to decide whether an innocent human being has enough worth to live freely – or to live at all – profoundly bad things happen.

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14 thoughts on “Pro-choice and pro-slavery reasoning”

  1. Random surfer here,
    Just a note, not arguing, but depending on the stage of development the fetus doesn’t feel pain yet nor does it have a heart beat. About 5 weeks in you’ll get an embryonic heart beat, and at about 8 the pain sensory systems come in.

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  2. “Just a note, not arguing, but depending on the stage of development the fetus doesn’t feel pain yet nor does it have a heart beat. About 5 weeks in you’ll get an embryonic heart beat, and at about 8 the pain sensory systems come in.”

    It’s a good thing then that no abortions happen after 5 or 8 weeks.

    Oh wait, they do.

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  3. “Just a note, not arguing, but depending on the stage of development the fetus doesn’t feel pain”

    So, you’re saying that it’s ok to murder, as long as they don’t feel it?

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  4. Neil, I am sure those who were pro slavery would have not been pro choice. Who would pass up the opportunity for free slaves(slaves being born to slaves you already own). I agree with you pro-choice and pro- slavery reasoning are bad.

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  5. Excellent comparison of both “reasonings”.

    Say, on the subject of slaves, I’d love to hear your ideas why the Bible seems to accept this practice.

    In our church, when our pastor wants to relate a passage to modern times, he seems to equate servantude to the modern day job.

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  6. That’s the most important and really the only question we need to answer – with just one twist: The question is when a human becomes a human.

    And there is good news: We have an answer. Life begins at conception – http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/life-begins-at-conception/ . Check out secular embryology textbooks. We know this from science.

    Abortion kills an innocent human being and is morally wrong at any stage.

    Arguing about when a human being becomes a person is an irrelevant philosophical question. Human beings have inherent worth at every stage of development.

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  7. 1. It is a living human being. That is a scientific fact. Even many pro-aborts concede that (hard to argue with 4-D ultrasounds!), which is why they came up with the convoluted “personhood” arguments (which can be debunked as well).

    Again, check the secular embryology textbooks.

    2. The theological question is for Christians or religious folks. I’m not imposing my religious views on anyone, though Psalm 139 and others make clear that God creates life. And any “Christian” who says Jesus is pro-abortion is twisted.

    3. Even if you weren’t sure when life begins, wouldn’t you err on the side of life? The consequences of being wrong are severe.

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  8. Unbelievable. Even after all (besides a radical few) Scientists have concluded beyond a doubt that life begins at conception, still Pro-choice advocates insist we don’t know.

    These are the same people who insists that a “consensus” of scientists have determined Global Warming to be man-made, with much less evidence and much less consensus for that matter.

    Lone Ranger made a comment on my last post that illustrates Neil’s point in his last comment:

    “If I were driving along and I saw a cardboard refrigerator box in the middle of the road, painted with magic markers to look like a space ship, I would not run it over, I would not nudge it aside with my car, I would stop to see if there were any kids inside. When you are NOT SURE about when human life begins, you err on the side of LIFE, not DEATH.”

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  9. @Neil:

    Well Neil, regardless of how I feel about it, since people don’t share my escoteric or theological position, all I have to compel them is science and regular ole secular morality and ethics.

    That being said, I have heard this debated by scientist on both sides of the issue, some say human life begins when the egg is hit by the sperm, some say later. I say, that it is a hell of alot to expect some scared young woman to go threw with a pregnency just because she is one day pregenet if she decided to take the morning after pill and you or I think that human life and personhood begin at the moment of conception. Let alone some rape victim.

    Perosnally, I am against abortions, but I alos am not convinced that life begins when two cells meet and begin to replicate. I am not sure that the embryo at that stage is a person with a SOUL or conciousness (for those of the non esoteric persuasion).

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