The Day of Silence

circle-slash.jpgThe Day of Silence (where schools encourage kids to be completely silent for a day to protest alleged discrimination against gays) is back, and students’ rights are being violated left and right.  It is bad enough that they disrupt the learning process for a whole day, but now some schools aren’t permitting students to miss school that day or instituting other requirements.

Gay clubs and the “Day of Silence” have no purpose in schools. The GLBTX propoganda machine just uses the Trojan Horse of being anti-bullying to get them in.  It is all part of the drive not just for tolerance, not just for affirmation, but to silence all critics.

But why have sex clubs and school-sponsored protest days just for that?  All you need is a simple and thoroughly enforced anti-bullying policy:

If you physically or verbally harass other students on or off school grounds you will have swift and serious consequences. It doesn’t matter if you are bullying because they are gay / straight / fat / thin / smart / dumb / pretty / ugly / etc., or if it is just because you are a jerk.  Zero tolerance.  Training over.  Now go to class and learn something.

Bullying is wrong.  I would always protect gays if they were being bullied, but that isn’t what this issue is really about.  If it was, then the kids who are picked on for all those other reasons should get a special day as well, and schools wouldn’t persecute students who wanted to opt out of this special day. 

More about their agenda and corruption of schools here and here.

And speaking of hate, consider the irony of how parts of the gay movement has reacted to people exercising their free speech.  If anyone has clear and consistent evidence of the larger movement denouncing these haters, I’d like to see it.

And how about a day of silence for persecuted Christians around the world, such as those being persecuted for standing up for a proper view of sexuality in Brazil?  And here’s a good idea from The Christian Alert.

42 thoughts on “The Day of Silence”

  1. OK, I guess I’m confused. As a protest to bullying, students just don’t talk all day?

    What happened to the idea of LEARNING at school? Seems like student/teacher interaction requires the student to speak.

    Recently, my son’school had “spirit week” where thy competed with another school to see who could raise the most money. My son’s school’s money went to a local camp for the disabled.

    They raised the money by buying out classes (you pay money and you don’t have to do anything in the class) as well as other activities.

    While this was a good cause, it meant that most classes did nothing for an entire week. In the classes that did do somethng, most student’s just goofed off and missed assignments.

    Schools should be for learning, not for protests.

    Like

  2. But the Left needs those queers to be a group needing special protections and privileges. They need as many “special groups” – read protected minorities as possible in order to further their agenda.

    Like

  3. Neil,
    Very good point. Just enforce the policies already in place and it takes care of itself. Same reason to nuke more unreasonable laws against murder, via hate-crimes legislation.
    Blessings

    Like

  4. It seems to me the Day of Silence has made its point given the Strong reactions to it whenever I read about it. Also, as a side note, anti-bullying policies have a tendency not to work, given that most kids are embarrassed to be bullied, and many times just don’t talk about it. And a further note, the Left does very little for GLBT and there actually is a growing backlash against such politically inept groups as HRC. I know this is one of those issues that creates a lot of reaction, and here my viewpoint runs counter to the blogmaster’s, but having spent enough time in education circles, one of the easiest justifications for a person to make regarding bullying another is to start calling the victim a “f*g or qu**r”.

    Peace.

    Like

  5. I visit schools as part of my J.O.B. (just over broke) and it breaks my heart to know that kids are being indoctrinated in this manner. The groups pushing these nefarious protests are not so much concerned about the kids in question, but are looking to encourage them toward what they believe is normal behavior (which by definition it cannot be). If they really cared about the kids, they would provide info regarding how to overcome the urges the deviants push for acceptance. Or, they would not stand in the way of anyone who decide to provide such info. My bottom line is this: Leave the kids the hell alone! The only discussions of sexuality in the schools should be that they are all too young to engage in it. Teach biology, but do not encourage promiscuity of any kind by liberal teachings.

    Like

  6. Gay clubs and the “Day of Silence” are have no use in schools. The GLBTX propoganda machines just uses the Trojan Horse of being anti-bullying to get them in.

    Er… that begs a few questions. Do you think that Christian clubs have no place in schools? Poetry clubs? Women-in-science clubs? French clubs?

    What about war protest? protest against apartheid, segregation, or abortion?

    If you really think that most of what goes on in school doesn’t belong there, that’s one thing. If, however, you accept that schools are social communities, then you stomach the groups you don’t like as a price to get the ones you do like.

    I firmly believe that the solution to speech you do not like is more speech. The stats on how badly gays are treated is staggering – 2 to 5 times as likely to commit suicide, 26% are kicked out of their homes at some point, subject to bullying, harassment, and discrimination. There are biological (but not genetic) bases for male homosexuality; female homosexuality is, sadly, often a result of horrific abuse. I guess I have a hard time getting upset at the thought of young students standing up for their peers.

    That doesn’t mean that students ought to be able to disrupt a classroom, and it is downright Orwellian for the school to prohibit protest (which is blindingly obvious when it’s your side being censored); nevertheless, if the students do not want to speak on a given day (outside of what they are required to do in class), fine. In fact, last time I checked, most teachers would be happy if their students were to be quieter during class time….

    Like

  7. “Do you think that Christian clubs have no place in schools? Poetry clubs? Women-in-science clubs? French clubs?”

    Those are all OK, except for the French clubs, of course. Spanish would be fine.

    Seriously, I think that sex-related clubs don’t belong in public schools. And I especially don’t like how some schools are – ironically – silencing the counter-protesters (who just want to avoid the waste of a day).

    And I am familiar with how this fits into the homosexual agenda – in their own words.

    If they want to do an across-the-board “don’t bully” day, that is fine with me.

    Like

  8. (laughing) at the French/Spanish club thing. Why bother with a Spanish club, though? Isn’t that like having an English club?

    I guess I don’t see a Gay/Straight Alliance as a “sex-related club,” mostly because I think that their purpose (if done reasonably, which is always a big “if”) is to promote understanding of those who are different, not to teach them sexual positions or anything.

    As for silencing the counter-protestors – horrible, regardless of who is being silenced.

    The feminist movement has its whackos, the civil rights movement its Jeremiah Wrights, and the Christian movement its bigots. For every gay person trying to repeal the age of sexual consent and introduce a new era in which there are no sexual morals, there are ten straight Amanda Marcottes who will try to do the same thing, and there are also many gay people who want to not be persecuted for having same-sex tendencies.

    Like

  9. “Why bother with a Spanish club, though? Isn’t that like having an English club?”

    Oh man, I can’t believe I missed that – and I live in SE Texas!

    Like

  10. Neil what is GLBTX? I havent seen that acronym before, although its always evolving to include some “sexual minority”.

    And on the serious, yes we need a day of silence and prayer and anything else we can do for those facing persecution in Brazil by homosexual activists.

    My BIG question is how can you protest alleged unfairness by being blantantly unfair?

    Like

  11. Wow, your blog is on the wordpress homepage.

    But about the topic, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of the Day of Silence. I’m actually a HS teacher but this hasn’t reached our school. I don’t know how I would handle it if it does…especially since my school is famous for having a large gay student population. I would certainly have to find a way to resist this while not alienating the students I hold dear.

    Like

  12. I think you do not understand what the day of silence is, and I have no idea what you mean by glbt “propaganda”.

    The Day of Silence is a nonviolent, nondisruptive, and very important. And, I think what you don’t understand, is that most schools DO NOT sponsor this event. Homophobia is rampant in the public school system, and this is trying to end it.

    One day to stand up for our rights, and you’re arguing against it?

    This is the last civil rights movement left in the U.S. Why all the resistance?

    We need to express toleration and acceptance for those who are different! Ever since the conservative backlash our country has become more and more of a Theocracy rather than a Democracy.

    Like

  13. “This is the last civil rights movement left in the U.S. Why all the resistance?”

    Hi Justin – that’s just it: Sexual preferences should not confer Civil Rights status. Same thing for polygamy, incest, etc. Or are you intolerant and unaccepting of those who practice such things? By what standard do you deny them?

    And even if GLBT preferences merited Civil Rights status, the schools should not be coercing the students to participate. Those who read my post and the first link should have seen that that was the main issue.

    Re. Theocracy – I think that is unfounded. Please page down to read my response to the Theocracy claims or click here – http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2008/04/09/those-darn-theocrats/.

    “Wow, your blog is on the wordpress homepage.”

    Hi LorMarie – yes, thanks. They seem to pick up my posts a couple times a week. Not sure what their process is. Might be a compliment, might be because of traffic, or more likely, it might be them filling their quota of theocrats.

    Like

  14. Sexual orientation and sexual preferance are 2 different things.

    Polygamy and Incest are not an orientation, but hetero/homo/bi/a/pansexual are orientations. Sexual orientation is NOT a choice, which is the basis for many people’s discrimination.

    Neil said: People have changed to and from those orientations, so they aren’t necessarily innate. Also, natural does not necessarily equal moral. People have predispositions to alcoholism and violence but we don’t affirm that.

    Please see Theobromophile’s link below. There was also a Utah public official on O’Reilly the other night (I was channel surfing, not a regular!) who was defending the polygamists. He cited Lawrence vs. Texas over and over.

    And you are wrong in assuming I am intolerant of such things. As far as I’m concerned, people should be free to do what they want, and should not be discriminated against.

    Neil said: I take a live-and-let-live approach with gays, provided they aren’t cramming it down my throat and demanding affirmation, pushing their perversions on children, etc.

    And comparing homosexuality to incest or polygamy just shows how much you know.

    To be honest, all I want to know is this. Why are you so against the LGBT community? What’s your perogative?

    Neil said: I’m for the people, not the movement. I treat every GLBTX I meet with kindness and respect. I have a lot of compassion for them. But what their movement is doing to children old and young is simply sickening – see http://www.massresistance.com/ and http://americansfortruth.com/ , among others. I know what their real agenda is.

    I also dislike what the pro-gay theologians are doing to churches (even though most of the perpetrators seem to be heteros). The Problems with pro-gay theology are vast.

    Oh, and the stifling of free speech with their “hate speech” laws is a downer.

    Like

  15. The Gay/Straight Alliance IS a sex-related club because it’s not simply about promoting “tolerance”, but, according to the evil, homophobic and hellspawn known as Peter LaBarbera, it seeks to encourage those who question their sexuality at a time when hormones are running wild. Kids have a hard enough time acclimating themselves to the changes going on inside them. This is no less than taking advantage of them whilst in a very vulnerable state. The GSA even provides literature with “helpful hints” regarding various sexual practices. Is this appropriate for our schools, even if it was entirely hetero? I don’t “think” not. I KNOW not.

    Despite Theo’s stats regarding how badly homosexuals are treated, to highlight this tendency in the manner it is simply uses how they are treated as a ploy to promote the behavior as a civil rights issue.

    And to what other group are they comparing homosexuals when determining percentages of suicides and the like? Even if we assume up that they comprise 10% of the population, it would still require tons of kids killing themselves to reach the same 2-5% of homosexuals. In other words, it takes far fewer of a smaller group to reach a given percentage. Plus, there can be many more reasons not related to their orientation that affect their decision to end their lives. Given the tendencies of homosexual activists and their misguided supporters, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they might discard other reasons to really sell the victim routine. Also, can they prove or certify that they were suicidal due to problems surrounding their homosexuality, or were their sexual tendencies separate from their suicidal tendencies? In any case, their suicidal tendencies were obviously more important to address and they obviously were not recognized by parents, teachers or anyone else.

    But even if we were to concede that the day of silence (couldn’t they please be silent the rest of the year as well?) is to reduce bullying and increase tolerance, they are still highlighting the homosexual aspect as something to be celebrated. Otherwise, why not a campaign to end harrassment in general? Trouble is, harrassment is what kids do. It’s on their business cards. It is no more evil to harrass over sexuality than it is for being fat, geeky, unattractive or a Barry Manilow fan.

    Still, there is no such respect for those who disagree and it took actual teeth pulling to have a Day of Truth. To have a day encouraging tolerance of a behavior automatically discriminates against those who understand the “wrongness” of the behavior.

    Finally, if the GSA really cares about these kids, I’d like to know what they do for those who truly don’t want to be homosexual. I’m thinking they try to convince the kid to simply accept it. They might as well put a bullet in the kid’s head right then.

    Like

  16. Justin,

    Orientation IS a choice in the sense that we do not have to act upon such things. However such things are explained or proven, the behavior that stems from such orientations need not manifest. Orientation alone is not sufficient for determining rights of any kind. Men in general are oriented toward sex with as many partners as possible. Is it really practical for society? I don’t think so. Nor do I think state sanctioning of homosexual unions are practical, either.

    Most people who oppose the behavior for whatever their reason, concede that some will engage in it no matter what the legalities are. Most do not condone harrassment or brutality toward homosexuals or even discrimination in hiring and such. But to force the other 98% of the population to bend to their will, which is indeed what would follow in order to appease the general GBLT community, is simply beyond reason and against the will of the people if we go by every state that put their proposals on the ballots.

    Just because we have urges and desires, just because we are “oriented” in a particular manner, it doesn’t mean we are entitled to anything.

    Like

  17. I know from the way you are talking I will never be able to convince you that being gay is OKAY. And it really is a pity, but I can respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with it.

    So, you think sex should only ever be used for procreation? Right? I just want to make that clear.

    Neil said: Not sure where you’re going with that straw man, but let’s pick up that topic when it might have some application to a post.

    I think you are going to have a rude awakening in the coming years. The conservative backlash at the end of the sixties is coming to an end. It’s merely a matter of time before your conservative generation is replaced by the more liberal generations.

    Neil said: I’m used to the world being against my values. This isn’t a new thing. But I don’t have to sit and watch it happen without speaking out.

    Actually, you better enjoy these days while you can. If you think Christians are bad, just wait to see what Islam will do when it is in power. Europe is getting a major dose already. Think they’ll be sponsoring days of silence? Probably, because the protestors will be dead.

    So, I realize that there is no way I can sway your opinion.

    Neil said: You realize, of course, that I could say the same thing of you? But I don’t because I find it to be a poor substitute for reasoning. It is mild as far as subtle personal attacks go, but it is still meaningless and does nothing to advance the conversation (“You’re too stubborn to change from your wrong position”). Uh, sure, whatever.

    But I will say this, Day of Silence is not about advocating gay marriage or anything like that, it’s merely about ending discrimination that we face everyday.

    Neil said: Once again you missed the point of the post and the main link. If people want to do this on their own without endorsement and forced participation from the school, then go crazy with it. Just don’t pretend that having school districts being complicit with forcing this agenda is OK.

    In an earlier post you said you don’t condone hate or hate crimes, well the glbt community has to deal with hate and hate crimes on a daily basis.

    Neil said: Yes, and so do Christians and many others. I just don’t demand special protection from the gov’t, and I definitely don’t demand affirmation. I do demand that crimes against gays be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and that they are afforded the same protections as all citizens. You and your movement are very creative in spinning that as hate and homophobia, but what’s new?

    Like

  18. I worked at a high school where they had a “Day of Silence.” It wasn’t all that bad. The teachers were informed in advance about which students would be silent. I remember one girl being called on in class but then being skipped when the teacher realized she was silent for a reason.
    I agree with theobromophile who said, ” If, however, you accept that schools are social communities, then you stomach the groups you don’t like as a price to get the ones you do like.”

    Neil said: Hi Asad – thanks for visiting and commenting.

    Like

  19. If you’re against the Day of Silence, take your children out of school that day. If they say it is an unexcused absence, really so what? Especially if your attendance record is ok. IMO parents have the right to take their children out of school for religious reasons, etc. Take them on an educational filed trip and have them write a paper. There are lots of lessons online that have documented educational standards and step by step procedures for fun yet great educational activities. Take advantage of them.

    Parents are responsible for the quality education of their children, not the state.

    Better yet, home school or put them in a private Christian school. Public schools would soon change their minds when they loose numbers of students that they need for their test data, especially the ones who score well. The money they get is based upon the number of students they have. (My old district gets $4000+ per student per year.) Hold them accountable on their school report cards and the pocketbooks.

    It’s a laugh that it was said above that the conservative movement is dying. Limbaugh just had an article that said it was on an upswing. It is also predicted that there will be a conservative backlash in this election. I’m seeing more and more people expressing these beliefs. Liberals are running scared and trying to make a big statement. Europe is even starting to push for reforms from what the liberals and socialists of the past couple decades have burdened them with. People are getting tired of being forced (against their civil liberties) to accept deviant behavior and silly ideas that they believe are wrong.

    Like

  20. Neil said: People have changed to and from those orientations, so they aren’t necessarily innate. Also, natural does not necessarily equal moral. People have predispositions to alcoholism and violence but we don’t affirm that.

    As for the first point: there’s some interesting research done about how the brain is formed in utero (esp. with gay men); about how it reacts to various stimuli (e.g. straight men and lesbian women react the same way; ditto for gay men and straight women).

    The fact that some people may swap back and forth doesn’t prove your point that it isn’t innate. First of all, some of them really, really try to be straight so that they can conform to societal and/or religious expectations. Second, some of them do the reverse: pretend to be a lesbian to flip out their parents. Third, some people are innately bisexual.

    I disagree with Justin about this being the last great civil rights movement. That would be, in fact, abortion; at least the Supreme Court hasn’t declared that the Constitution mandates discrimination against gays.

    As for not affirming every natural tendency – very true. There are some that we happily affirm (chastity, parental love, devotion between spouses), and some that we do everything to quelch (violence, paedophilia, drug addiction). Of course, the next big question is: Which category does homosexuality fall under, and why? If it’s simply that it’s “not normal,” then I would put it under the first category. My love of math and science “isn’t normal for a girl,” but (hopefully) society will encourage it anyway.

    Of course, I’m a libertarian, so I think that civil unions ofr everyone is the way to go. Policing marriage isn’t the job of the State – and, let’s be honest, it does it quite badly. No fault divorce, anyone? Send marriage back to the Church, and have the state give out its domestic partnerships.

    Like

  21. The state, that is, the people who vote, has decided in every state where they’ve been offered the chance to to so, that there is no advantage to the state to sanction anything but the traditional marriage. The no-fault divorce angle, as well as all other examples of where traditional marriage has strayed from it’s purpose, are not good reasons to add to it with a completely different group of possibilities, all of which have their “good couples” and not so good. What is not given much thought is the possible (and in the Netherlands they are finding out) negative ramifications of the state equating these other possibilities with traditional marriage. In New Mexico, where they don’t even legally recognize either “gay” marriage or civil unions, a Christian couple who run their own photography business has just been fined several thousand dollars for not shooting the commitment ceremony of a lesbian couple. What could be more unAmerican that both demonizing their religious beliefs and their right of free association?

    As for research, there has been nothing that is conclusive regarding how one becomes “gay”. If there was, we’d be constantly reminded of it in any discussion on the topic.

    As for the intent of the Day of Silence, it is indeed to promote the lifestyle as normal and “OK” or else a special day to focus on harrassment of homosexuals would not be necessary, which it isn’t. The reason for hazing and bullying is irrelevant. They don’t run such days to reduce hazing of fat kids, ugly kids, geeky kids, etc. They don’t need a special day for this.

    Like

  22. We should take this opportunity to show grace to the students. Teenagers can be manipulated by lobbyists and we need to show them our love and care.

    Show up for class. Be cordial. Study hard. Go home. Pray.

    I guess you can pray during class too.

    Like

  23. Theo,
    Regarding no-fault divorces, (at the risk of taking this way off topic), what do you do about the couple where one gives up a career path to follow the spouse’s dreams? (stereo-typical 1950’s or 60’s marriage) Who takes care of the children? What happens when one spouse wants to move across country with the kids?

    I’m just curious….

    Like

  24. As for research, there has been nothing that is conclusive regarding how one becomes “gay”. If there was, we’d be constantly reminded of it in any discussion on the topic.

    As for the intent of the Day of Silence, it is indeed to promote the lifestyle as normal and “OK” or else a special day to focus on harrassment of homosexuals would not be necessary, which it isn’t. The reason for hazing and bullying is irrelevant. They don’t run such days to reduce hazing of fat kids, ugly kids, geeky kids, etc. They don’t need a special day for this.

    Well, Marshall, you choose to be Christian, so that shouldn’t be protected, right? It’s not like your brain is wired to be Christian. Definitely a choice, so let’s allow religious discrimination and harassment.

    Oh, yeah, those Jews who are complaining about the Holocaust? If you don’t want to be throw in a gas chamber, profess a different religion. That must be easier than being celibate for your entire life.

    (rolls eyes)

    ACCORDING TO YOU, gay students don’t need a day of awareness. ACCORDING TO YOU, they choose to be harassed, live a lifestyle outside the norm, and have apparently existed in every single human society (regardless of the level of acceptance) because… well, you don’t care, it must be innate, so they should STFU.

    People do NOT have to be quiet – or talkative, as the case may be – to suit your needs. Buck up, cupcake – there are a LOT of people out there who disagree with you, and the price of your own speech is not kvetching about theirs. You can kvetch about the content, but to complain that they are doing it is narrow-minded, ignornant, and totalitarian. Sick, sick, sick, and the worst that Christianity has to offer. If a few kids stand up for their gay friends, who, according to the omniscient Marshall Art, are never harassed, beaten (does the name Matthew Shephard ring a bell?), or otherwise treated abominably because of their real or perceived sexual orientation, they ought to stop it. Stop it cold, because it isn’t “necessary,” or it does not include everyone who is bulled (because, apparently, we’re under an obligation to make our speech like that of a fourth-grade Valentine’s Day: no one gets a card unless everyone gets one!), or, in short, because you don’t like it.

    Revolting, really.

    I endured a tremendous amount of harassment in high school for my perceived, but not real, sexual orientation. But for the love and caring of exactly one person, I would have killed myself. When you bash people who stick up for students facing harassment for their sexual orientation, you may as well tell me that I should have just slit my wrists. I can tell you, not as a gay student but as someone who nevertheless endured a tremendous amount of misery for being thought gay, that there is an extreme amount of harassment aimed at gay students. If you choose to not believe me, fine – be an example of “Christian” narrow-minded ignorance.

    Now, perhaps I should have just screwed around to prove my heterosexuality. After all, chastity is a choice, and there was one easy way to get people off my case. Are you unaware of the fact that the political Left uses the exact same arguments that you use in regards to chastity? That they have tried to silence Dawn Eden, using your arguments? They oppose not just the content of her speech, but the fact that she dares to do it.

    If you missed the part where people are free to practise their religion of choice, and can (figuratively) kick Chritsianity or any religion that disses gays in the face, that is your problem.

    My gay friends struggled horribly for years. Many of them, until adulthood, tried to be straight. Their ideals are those of straight people; they want, more than anything, to be straight and NOT to feel the way they do. I’m sorry that you’ve apparently never met anyone who is gay. Of course, they do not have to act on their desires, but I’ll listen to a striaght person say that when they voluntarily forgo sex themselves to show how easy it is. (Dead serious. Unless you want to walk the walk, that we can all supress our desires and live a more Christ-like life, and, in order to show that, give up intercourse, then you’re not living the life you would set out for others.)

    Finally, get a clue about modern research into homosexuality. Perhaps you haven’ t heard it beause you shove your fingers in your ears and say “LA LA LA LA LA” any time someone brings up the subject.

    Like

  25. Theo : Thank You

    In regards to my statement about procreation, if we are using the Bible as an argument against homosexuality, then according to the Bible, all sex besides for the reason of procreation is a sin and wrong.

    Neil said: Hi Justin – can you cite some passages for that view? (in context, of course) The primary purpose is procreation but that is certainly not the only purpose. I’ll save you some time if you like: God’s plan for sexual relations is one man / one woman in a covenant marriage.

    I’d also like to say that I am a 15 year-old gay teen who has to deal with harassment and bullying every single day.

    Neil said: I am truly sorry to hear that. I prayed that you would receive the protection that you need and deserve. As noted several times above, bullying is wrong.

    Use commone sense! IF HOMOSEXUALITY WAS A CHOICE, NOBODY WOULD BE GAY. Nobody would choose to live a life where you are discriminated against left and right for no other reason than who you love.

    Neil said: I disagree – http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/born-that-way/ You could say the same thing about Christians, yet we gladly make that choice (unconditional election debates aside).

    And all this talk of a “Gay Agenda”. FYI: There is no gay agenda. There are so many double standards that are wrong and immoral. Gays have a lifestyle while straight people have a life.

    Neil said: I linked to an agenda made, supported and executed by gay leaders. I think that qualifies as an agenda.

    Please, watch this video, it may help you step into our shoes.

    Neil said: Sorry, no pro-gay propaganda posted here. It doesn’t really advance your cause, anyway – just simplistic sound bites. He deliberately mischaracterizes the “parts don’t fit” for example. That is a saying that clearly shows how the behavior defies natural law.

    He is way out of his league when trying to address the Bible. I’ll be glad to address any Bible passages in context that you like. Here’s a great starter: http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/dallas.html

    Homosexual behavior is physically, emotionally and spiritually destructive. I encourage you to abstain from it. Not because it has any direct impact on me, but because I wish the best for you.

    Like

  26. It’s destructive?
    Now that’s a new one.
    I know many happy and open gay and lesbian individuals. I would have to say I am pretty dang happy myself.

    I don’t know how this can be physically destructive…

    Emotionally? No more than any other sort of relationship.

    And Spirtually? No. Religiously? Yes.
    There is a difference between spirituality and religion, and you certainly don’t need religion to be spiritual.

    Like

  27. Maybe you picked up on this, but I noted homosexual behavior was destructive, not homosexual preferences. If you are 15 yrs. old and you are sexually active (straight, gay, bi-, whatever), then I really, really encourage you to abstain. Sin has consequences.

    Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

    Like

  28. I know you were kidding, but just for the record, we can’t opt out of the consequences for God’s moral laws any more than we can do so for his physical laws.

    Don’t like gravity? Too bad, because when you don’t take it seriously it will hurt you. Same thing for God’s rules about sexual behavior.

    Rationalize all you like, but there will be physical (disease and damage), emotional and spiritual consequences. Sexual sins aren’t wrong just because they are in the Bible, they are in the Bible because they are wrong.

    The Good News is that while we are all sinners against a holy and perfect God (even if we had zero sexual sins), Jesus is the Savior of all who put their trust in him.

    Like

  29. Justin,

    My advice is to flee from this blog as quickly as you can. You’re not going to get helpful advice or intelligent thought from the flat-earthers here. Just be thankful that gay rights are advancing, and that religion is on the decline.

    Neil said: Well, Mike, I suppose that is one strategy. It isn’t like we’re keeping him here against his will. Although Justin might be smart enough to see fact-free your reasoning is. I don’t know a single flat earther, so I’m not sure what the point of that personal attack is.

    Also, while gay rights are advancing that doesn’t mean that is because that is a good thing. And religion may be on a decline in parts of the West but Christianity is growing rapidly around the world. And you may want to keep an eye on that Islam-thingy. I assure you that you’ll miss the days of fundy Christians once those guys take over.

    Like

  30. Theo,

    It seems I’ve upset you. I base this possibility on your comments which are less articulate than usual. It was not my intention to do so. So I will attempt to respond to those points that I feel sure I understand. First let me apologize to Neil in advance for what may be a lengthy reply.

    paragraph by paragraph beginning with paragraph:

    1. Huh? Choice is not the issue in protected status. The issue is whether or not this DOS is appropriate for schools. If the issue was simply hazing and bullying, no matter the reason, then I’m all for such a day. Within that context, it would be entirely appropriate to say that just because another kid in school thinks he might be gay, harrassing and bullying the kid is unkind and not tolerated. (I believe the criteria for labelling behavior “harrassment or bullying” in regards to homosexual kids, and adults for that matter, is a longer list than for other victims of such behavior. It’s clear that any discussion, no matter how respectful, that attempts to point out the “wrongness” of the behavior is considered bigotry. That in itself is bullying. In this case, it is your side that needs to “buck up”.) As to protections, I believe the previous shows that I am all for protecting kids against bullying or harrassment, no matter the reason, but this day set aside for this is promotion and an attempt to silence those with reasoned and intelligent objections of any kind. You bullies.

    2. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    (now I’m rolling MY eyes)

    3. According to me, kids that age are going through a lot of biological changes that affect their perspective and worldview in a variety of ways. Fitting in in every sense is particularly important. They’re trying to feel their way in life and the groups like Gay/Straight Alliance are exploiting that. Counciling for kids struggling with these issues? Absolutely, but not by groups that seek to encourage the behavior, but trained counselors or psychologists that can respond to them in an objective and clinical manner, without any agenda of their own beyond the total welfare of the child. It is unfortunate, however, how the psychiatric field has bailed on the subject after failing to find an effective manner to deal with it. (It is important to know that one of the leading shrinks that played a part in removing homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, a man who’s name I believe is Spritzer, an atheist BTW, has now come to believe that change is possible after interviewing a couple hundred who left the lifestyle.)

    4. I believe this is about my crack about being silent the other 364 days of the year. Your turn to buck again. What’s that expression about if you can’t take a joke? Is that now to be made illegal? The joke is provoked by the constant whining about rights that you have not lost, and the notion that just because YOU think you should have legal sanctions that it means you MUST have them by law. Nonsense. We only have the right to pursue happiness, we don’t have a Constitutionally protected right to happiness itself. The state is in no way obliged to make sure everything is just as you like it, though you are free to lobby for change just like everyone else.

    This is not merely a matter of what my faith is, but also a matter of objective reasoning and looking at as much as is available and deciding what enhances or does harm to our culture. When it comes to radical changes in our culture and traditions, the stakes may be higher than either of us could ever imagine. Let the Netherlands be the guinea pig a while longer before we risk anything here.

    I have heard of Matthew Shephard and it may cause you further grieving, but I’ve also heard that his attack had nothing to do with being a homosexual. It’s just that that doesn’t fit into the agenda, so it’s continually played as a “hate crime” (I hate that totally unAmerican policy, be it for homosexuals, blacks, Jews or anyone—totally bad law). But there’s a real possibility for us to face: that any harm done to a homosexual or lesbian will be automatically because they are homo or lez. (I will now use those abbreviations for ease, so in advance, lighten up and don’t take offense.)

    Now the rest of the paragraph I’m not sure of, but I think the response is I DON’T CONDONE HARRASSMENT OF ANY KIND AND IT DOESN’T MATTER WHY THE VICTIM IS BEING HARRASSED! I WOULD DEFEND THE VICTIM MYSELF WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE AND IF NECESSARY, BRUTE FORCE! Is that plain enough for you? Here’s some more: there is NO reason whatsoever to deal in sexual matters in schools beyond the biology of it and the fact that each and every student is too damned young and immature to engage in it. Whether you think homosexual behavior is OK or not, we, as adults, need to continually encourage kids to remain abstinent until adulthood, if not marriage (with the opposite sex–dig, dig). It is our job as supposedly responsible and caring adults. The GSA prefers to distribute how-to flyers. This is unacceptable to anyone who truly cares for the welfare of our youth. Safe sex is a myth and the proof of that is the number of kids infected with STDs. Can you maybe get behind THIS a little bit?

    Talk about revolting.

    5. I regret on your behalf that you experienced such hardship and a teen. I know of a kid who went through the same thing. It was sad to see and I stood with him. This ain’t just talk, it’s the facts. I’m far more aware of these things than you seem willing to believe. Far easier to insult my faith and integrity. No problem. I can deal. I’ve dealt with worse.

    6. I’ll be right back. I have to Google Dawn Eden.

    Like

  31. I saw a link come in from a blogger who is bitter that I banned him. I didn’t read his post, I just saw the header.

    He’s the guy who insisted I was like Joseph Stalin because Stalin wasn’t keen on Darwinian evolution, either. No logical fallacies there, right? And I didn’t even realize Stalin was a blogger. I thought he was more of a Facebook guy.

    His initial comment was bad enough to begin with, but after being corrected he repeated it three times before being banned for good (see the original comments below). I’m a patient guy but who has time for such nonsense?

    Then he put up some equally bad reasoning at another blog and I reminded him of his silly Stalin comments. Instead of seriously apologizing, he dug himself a deeper hole:

    “I pointed out that opposing Darwin is not the Chrisitian nor Yankee Patriot position. It was THEN you started acting like Joseph Stalin. . . I hadn’t intended to provoke your latent Stalinism, and I still regret it.”

    Latent Stalinism . . . heh. And he wonders why I don’t visit his blog. It is for the same reason I don’t visit with neighbors and co-workers who are incoherent cranks. The blog world is really too small.

    Ed, I realize you were embarrassed at getting banned for your illogical rants (these are just samples). But the mature thing to do is just move on and stop drawing attention to yourself. Link to my posts all you like. I’ll save this comment for future reference so your readers can be fully informed about your abilities to make logical arguments and engage in reasoned dialogue.

    His original comments (emphasis added):

    “Oppressors nearly always try to stifle information — the way Stalin tried to stifle evolution, for example, shooting a few Darwinists, banning a few others to death in Siberia, demoting the rest, and banning publication of anything based on evolution theory. If one chooses not to read the information Stalin tried to destroy, doesn’t one run the risk of advancing Stalin’s agenda?

    “Well, I apologize. I was stating fact. I fail to understand why you advocate Stalin’s doctrine against Darwin. Were you unaware that you are? That’s one thing. But to accuse me of making an ad hominem argument, when all I state is fact . . . well, it may be ad hominem, but it’s accurate in this case. It’s not a false argument. Does it not cause you to pause and think about what you advocate?”

    “Well, can you explain how your view differs from Stalin’s?”

    “And, I’m still waiting for you to explain how your views on Darwin differ from Stalin’s.”

    Like

  32. I’m back. Eden sounds like a cool chick. I’m not sure I understand how my sound arguments would work against a good idea like chastity for the unmarried. Chasitity IS a choice, and a good one for them. But at the same time, good arguments can be used for bad reasons and then they are poorly presented. So, when people like Eden are attacked in that manner, the source being well considered should be ignored, and, if it were me, soundly mocked and laughed at.

    7. I didn’t miss that memo and FYI I just kick back, though with love, calmness and confidence in the knowledge that I am right. Thank you very much.

    8. I met my first homosexual in this manner: in high school, a friend got me a job where he worked at a kind of Ben Franklin/ five and dime type of store. The owner was the homosexual. He hit on me in the following manner. Playing chess after hours, whilst sharing a bowl of weed, I dropped my lighter, I believe it was on the floor. As I bent over to pick it up, I noticed his johnson hanging out of his pants. I said, “Hey Fred. What is your [expletive deleted] hanging out of your pants?” He simply said it was comfortable. Enjoying the game and the fine weed, I let it pass and continued the game. On another occasion, he claimed to be at a party where a special concoction of drugs and alcohol got everyone so wasted that an orgy broke out and no one cared with whom they were having sex. I let him know that there is no way I could ever be so hammered as to not know the difference between right and wrong, even if I use the BS excuse about being hammered to get my ass out of a jam.

    Lost touch with the guy but another friend who knew and liked him like I did said he had heard that he moved in with a guy and that guy contracted AIDS and that was all he knew. One more thing: he really liked The Fifth Dimension.

    Later in life, a far more close friend came out after it was confirmed that he had AIDS. I did not in any way shun him, though I asked him lots of questions, to which he answered without inhibition. At the time, he lived in an area in Chicago known for it’s gay population, but was moving out because everyone there was nuts. That was his opinion of all the gay people he knew. His “significant other” who was nice enough to give him that horrid gift, was indeed a head case. As I watched my friend die, my interest in this subject grew exponentially. He was barely recognizable at the end.

    Voluntarily give up sex? Not fun, but not hard to do. One only needs to realize that as much fun as it is, and it is really, really fun, it’s likely the most fun of all, not much that I can think of is more fun, it ain’t no big deal. I cannot stomach the old “one thing led to another” crap. I’ve pulled up my shorts because the chick said she wasn’t on the pill (She claimed that it just ain’t nat-tu-RAL!) and I’ve never felt comfortable with the pill either. I once was skinny dipping with a neighbor’s wife (there was supposed to be more neighbors doing it, but they all went home to bed) and as it became more than just a swim, I got out of the pool and we both went home. I am no more or less horny than any other man, I just don’t let little Elvis to the thinking. Ain’t no thang.

    As to research, it might comfort you to believe I’m just talkin’ out my behind, but unfortunately for you, I eagerly read all I can and soak up every article that comes my way regarding the latest research, waiting for the time when the matter is settled once and for all. It ain’t even close. I read one study that was done by researchers who themselves are homosexuals. I don’t recall which one specifically, but the point I want to make regards their own words, which were, to paraphrase, “this should not be taken as definite proof, it only suggests the possibility…” and that’s pretty much the best any study has provided, the suggestion of a possibility. Sorry doll. Not enough to change any law or tradition. And here’s the bottom line on research: biology is no excuse for bad behavior. One study suggested that early fetal development provides the answer as the mother’s emotional state can affect the testosterone levels in the child. If the levels are low, homosexuality is a strong possibility (supposedly). The same documentary explaining this also described the opposite condition of too much testosterone, which results in highly aggressive and violent behavior. Well then. We can’t really punish too harshly the murderer if he can’t help wanting to hack people to death, now can we, because after all, he was born that way. I’ve no doubt that there’s a biological factor in homosexuality. But the same is true for every urge and compulsion we have. Why only homosexuality and why should only they get special treatment as a result? Biology doesn’t matter with right and wrong. And legally, we aren’t required to accomodate the whims of every little percentage simply because THEY say it’s the right thing to do. It is THEIR opinion that is biased, not ours. And certainly not mine. Mine is based on all the info I could possibly find.

    So ironically, you picked the wrong dude to accuse of shallowness, bigotry and “narrow minded Christianity” on every point you’ve raised. What a burn!

    Like

  33. I don’t see how you can be so one-sided about everything there is in the world. I’m not only Christian, but Catholic and I have no problem with people that are gay. I have many friends since I arrived into high school in 9th grade. How dare you talk of the bible and God like you know what He thinks and Wants. And loves. There aren’t anything wrong with people and for you to judge someone for one thing about them, but treat them like that! What is wrong with you? You obviously have never had any problem in your perfect little judgement life. I wish all people could be so perfect as you think you are, and have never had a problem or stood up for what others didn’t think was right, but you are no better than those people throwing the rocks and harrassing people. You don’t get to judge people. By putting your thought and opinion on line, you are asking for either a fight or praise. The people who think you are wrong are the ones who will stand up to you and you will be all alone. I pity you for being so blind and deaf because you choose to be. You weren’t born that way, you chose to be. God makes people dif like gay because it helps others see that God loves everyone. Actually read the Bible, not that all of it is true. Jesus himself didn’t write it. People walk and talk around thinking they are in his graces and speaking acting for him. They aren’t and neither are you. Why would you purposely post something that would post something that was your opinion, knowing that it would hurt someone? You are no Christian. No real Christian would hurt someone like that on purpose because you have some mindset that it’s ok. You are the one throwing the stones. You are no better than anyone else, and on judgement day, this will be against you. I hope God forgives you. I hope these people can forgive you, because what you are doing is really cruel. It must be nice to have a perfect life like you that can judge people without consiquences. You’ll realize one day, and feel like an awful jerk one day for this. For something so little and incignificant like posting a blog, until you write something so hurtful and dumb.

    Like

  34. Oh, and by the way….I am straight. Never wondered, never tried. But never judged or hurt because I’m not gay. That’s the difference between you and I.

    Like

  35. “I don’t see how you can be so one-sided about everything there is in the world.”

    First, it would be helpful if you would provide some clarity regarding which person you are addressing- the blog’s author or one of the various comments posted by others.

    “I’m not only Christian, but Catholic and I have no problem with people that are gay.”

    I am not sure I understand what you mean by this statement. Are Catholics somehow “extra” Christian?

    “I have many friends since I arrived into high school in 9th grade.”

    Well congratulations. It is always nice to have friends. However, how is that germane to this discussion?

    “How dare you talk of the bible and God like you know what He thinks and Wants. And loves.”

    So what do you do when you read your Bible? What do you think you find in your Bible? Does it contain the words of God and God’s desire for each of us? Doesn’t it go on to say who he loves, what he desires us to do, etc.?

    “There aren’t anything wrong with people and for you to judge someone for one thing about them, but treat them like that!”

    Treat them like what? Neil called for a broad anti-bullying policy that would ALSO prohibit bullying based on sexuality. So which part of his post calls for homosexual men and women to be treated “like that”? That is presuming your like that carries a negative connotation.

    “What is wrong with you? You obviously have never had any problem in your perfect little judgement life. I wish all people could be so perfect as you think you are…”

    Isn’t this a tad bit convenient to claim your adversary in this argument makes claims to be perfect when he has done no such thing. He has stated repeatedly on this blog that we are all sinners- something you are no doubt familiar with as a Catholic. Once more I would ask, how opposing a narrowly tailored anti-bullying policy in favor of a much broader and more protective policy is judgmental?

    “…and have never had a problem or stood up for what others didn’t think was right, but you are no better than those people throwing the rocks and harrassing people.”

    How? What did he say that makes you believe this?

    “…You don’t get to judge people.”

    Then why are you judging him? Does the rule only apply to him, but not to you?

    “By putting your thought and opinion on line, you are asking for either a fight or praise.”

    Or maybe he is looking for a discussion. One that involves a civil back and forth, instead of your comment which contains a lot of anger and righteous indignation but almost no content addressed toward the actual post. Also, if you had taken the time to read the comments prior to your own you would have seen that there were people arguing both sides of the issue- and almost all of them were civil and courteous.

    “The people who think you are wrong are the ones who will stand up to you and you will be all alone.”

    Except for the people who agree with him. And why would someone abandon a friend because they disagree over the extent of anti-bullying legislation? Don’t believe all you hear Crystal, the political isn’t always personal.

    “I pity you for being so blind and deaf because you choose to be. You weren’t born that way, you chose to be. God makes people dif like gay because it helps others see that God loves everyone.”

    Does he also make people adulterers just so he can show his love? I would suggest that you go back over Catholic theology on the entrance of sin into this world. Your awkward theology would seem to make sinful behavior acceptable if one assumes that God “created” people to engage in sin X, Y, or Z. Moreover, because God still loves us even while we sin (often deliberately), that doesn’t act as an excuse to continue to ignore God and pursue a particular sinful action.

    “Actually read the Bible, not that all of it is true.”

    Could you kindly point out the false parts?

    “Jesus himself didn’t write it.”

    So why you do believe in it? Why do you use it as a basis to condemn Neil? After all it is a collection of documents that isn’t entirely reliable, nor does it accurately represent Christ. That is your argument, right?

    “People walk and talk around thinking they are in his graces and speaking acting for him. They aren’t and neither are you.”

    How do you know this?

    “Why would you purposely post something that would post something that was your opinion, knowing that it would hurt someone?”

    So one cannot disagree over anti-bullying policies because it might hurt someone’s feelings? Are you seriously attempting to apply a standard of not hurting the feelings of any group to the discussion of public policy. Do you not see a problem with that?

    “You are no Christian. No real Christian would hurt someone like that on purpose because you have some mindset that it’s ok.”

    How do you know who is a real Christian?

    “You are the one throwing the stones. You are no better than anyone else, and on judgement day, this will be against you.”

    How do you know? Are you privy to some information the rest of us are not?

    “I hope God forgives you.”

    Well finally some kindness and mercy. How magnanimous of you.

    “I hope these people can forgive you…”

    Homosexuals prefer to be called homosexuals, as opposed to “these people.” 😉 They find the term offensive.

    “…because what you are doing is really cruel. It must be nice to have a perfect life like you that can judge people without consiquences. You’ll realize one day, and feel like an awful jerk one day for this. For something so little and incignificant like posting a blog, until you write something so hurtful and dumb.”

    Much of that made no sense. Your poor punctuation and syntax are really getting in the way of your argument coming across with clarity.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s